Are You More Blessed Than the Virgin Mary?

Desiring God ^ | 12/15/2010 | Jonathan Parnell

[Jvette]

We still pray for unity, it’s Jesus’ prayer as well.

[xone]

ph

[Mad Dawg]

Actually "paster" was part of a joke about cutting and pasting, I think. And of course, right after you mocked Cronos you typed:
... as toe the reason for it.

Personally, I don't type well and don't proof successfully.

[Cronos]

The Strange case of Dr. JECKyl and Mr. Hyde

MR. UTTERSON the lawyer was a man of a rugged countenance, that was never lighted by a smile; cold, scanty and embarrassed in discourse; backward in sentiment; lean, long, dusty, dreary, and yet somehow lovable. At friendly meetings, and when the wine was to his taste, something eminently human beaconed from his eye; something indeed which never found its way into his talk, but which spoke not only in these silent symbols of the after-dinner face, but more often and loudly in the acts of his life. He was austere with himself; drank gin when he was alone, to mortify a taste for vintages; and though he enjoyed the theatre, had not crossed the doors of one for twenty years. But he had an approved tolerance for others; sometimes wondering, almost with envy, at the high pressure of spirits involved in their misdeeds; and in any extremity inclined to help rather than to reprove.

2)

"I incline to Cain's heresy," he used to say quaintly: "I let my brother go to the devil in his own way." In this character, it was frequently his fortune to be the last reputable acquaintance and the last good influence in the lives of down-going men. And to such as these, so long as they came about his chambers, he never marked a shade of change in his demeanour.

No doubt the feat was easy to Mr. Utterson; for he was undemonstrative at the best, and even his friendship seemed to be founded in a similar catholicity of good-nature. It is the mark of a modest man to accept his friendly circle ready-made from the hands of opportunity; and that was the lawyer's way. His friends were those of his own blood or those whom he had known the longest; his affections, like ivy, were the growth of time, they implied no aptness in the object. Hence, no doubt, the bond that united him to Mr. Richard Enfield, his distant kinsman, the well-known man about town. It was a nut to crack for many, what these two could see in each other, or what subject they could find in common. It was reported by those who encountered them in their Sunday walks, that they said nothing, looked singularly dull, and would hail with obvious relief the appearance of a friend. For all that, the two men put the greatest store by these excursions, counted them the chief jewel of each week, and not only set aside occasions of pleasure, but even resisted the calls

[Cronos]

Does the paster provide glue for the people as well, so they can all paste together?

Actually, in your group's case, the paster provides strawberry jam since he/she feeds your group excerpts without context leading to utter lack of knowledge of scripture beyond the ability to quote.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

More blather. Mary is not sinless, not a co-redeemer, not a mediator, not a queen of heaven, not the mother of all humanity, yadayadayada.

And Robert Louis Stevenson was Presbyterian. He agreed with me.

[Cronos]

"All people should be watching how involved their church is in joining with this push for a one world religion. "

Bluntly, I've lived quite a bit outside the US now -- in Europe and Asia for over a decade with earlier trips to the same regions as well and I can say that there is no real push for a one-world religion.

That was supposed to be communism, but that idea is dead.

The overwhelming danger is Islam -- it's been that way since the 7th century and it is the same now. Europe and Russia took it's eye off the ball in the 19th century but now we must refocus.

In even a syncretic religion like Hinduism, there is more draw to form smaller groups -- the Hindu right-wing parties may say they are all proponents of Sanatana Dharma, but reality differs -- in the south, the worshippers of Amma could seriously be classified as a separate religion. While the regional varieties and deities are enough to drive a classifier nuts.

Even in Islam, we see the re-rise of Shi'ism, but also the push by Druze, by Ibadis and Ismailis for recognition. These groups are targetted by AlQaida as they are not Sunni.

In Sunni islam, the Sufis (mystical sect but in my opinion as fanatical, though well-covered) are targetted by the hardline Wahabbis (who are despised as they destroyed the tombs of the early Caliphs and Aisha in Makkah). And of course we have the Ahmadiyas and Bahai's who are targetted by all as being the worse kind of heretic (those who deny that Mo was the last prophet).

Among Hindus the hidden story is the number of Hindus who have converted to Jainism recently -- the Hindu hardliners pretend that Jains are Hindus but they are quite definitely not

Jains do not believe that there is any such thing as a creator God or gods -- they believe that the universe always existed and state that the idea of a creator god creating something out of nothing is illogical. This religion predates Buddhism (and indeed much of Buddhist practise seems derived from it) -- the last Tirthankara, Mahavira, dates to 700 BC. The religion believes that the "gods" are just beings with extra powers and are equally subject to the laws of Karma -- they are not immortal. The highest level for a Jain (think of "Q" in the Star Trek franchise) is an elevated being called an Adinath (or a destroyer of death), a being who has risen past this plane of existence and moved to another plane. However, in that other plane, they don't care or even notice/remember this plane and there is no point worshipping THEM either

Among the lower-castes, there is a movement to convert to Buddhism, but a different Buddhism from others -- more animist.

Buddhism itself has fragmented more recently -- beyond the Mahayana and Therawada groups.

The move globally seems to be away from unity in religion. Only in the US and W. Europe (with one notable exception -- see below) do you see such a thing as the WCC, in the rest there is fragmentation or strict clinging to historical religion. *The exception is India where a few decades ago the Methodists, Presbyterians and ANglicans and Baptists unified to form the CNI (Church of North India) and CSI (Church of South India) -- however this has been a failure with utter loss of concrete doctrine resulting in large numbers of erstwhile CSI and CNI folks becoming new-wave Pentecostals (from missionaries from the US) or BAptists or Catholics.

[Cronos]

It chanced on one of these rambles that their way led them down a by-street in a busy quarter of London. The street was small and what is called quiet, but it drove a thriving trade on the week-days. The inhabitants were all doing well, it seemed, and all emulously hoping to do better still, and laying out the surplus of their gains in coquetry; so that the shop fronts stood along that thoroughfare with an air of invitation, like rows of smiling saleswomen. Even on Sunday, when it veiled its more florid charms and lay comparatively empty of passage, the street shone out in contrast to its dingy neighbourhood, like a fire in a forest; and with its freshly painted shutters, well-polished brasses, and general cleanliness and gaiety of note, instantly caught and pleased the eye of the passenger.

Two doors from one corner, on the left hand going east, the line was broken by the entry of a court; and just at that point, a certain sinister block of building thrust forward its gable on the street. It was two stories high; showed no window, nothing but a door on the lower story and a blind forehead of discoloured wall on the upper; and bore in every feature, the marks of prolonged and sordid negligence. The door, which was equipped with neither bell nor knocker, was blistered and distained. Tramps slouched into the recess and struck matches on the panels; children kept shop upon the steps; the schoolboy had tried his knife on the mouldings; and for close on a generation, no one had appeared to drive away these random visitors or to repair their ravages.

[Cronos]

the phrase "Jekyll and Hyde" coming to mean a person who is vastly different in moral character from one situation to the next.

Stevenson's nurse, Alison Cunningham's Calvinism and folk beliefs were an early source of nightmares for the child

In June 1888, Stevenson chartered the yacht Casco and set sail for the S. Pacific. It was also from this period that one particular open letter stands as testimony to his activism and indignation at the pettiness of such 'powers that be' as a Presbyterian minister in Honolulu named Rev. Dr. Hyde. During his time in the Hawaiian Islands, Stevenson had visited Molokai and the leper colony there, shortly after the demise of Father Damien (a Belgian Catholic priest, member of the Congregation of the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary, He won recognition for his ministry to people with leprosy (also known as Hansen's disease), who had been placed under a government-sanctioned medical quarantine on the island of Molokaʻi in the Kingdom of Hawaiʻi. After sixteen years caring for the physical, spiritual, and emotional needs of those in the leper colony, he eventually contracted and died of the disease, and is widely considered a "martyr of charity". He is the ninth person recognized as a saint by the Catholic Church to have lived, worked, and died in what is now the United States.).

When Dr. Hyde wrote a letter to a fellow clergyman speaking ill of Father Damien, Stevenson wrote a scathing open letter of rebuke to Dr. Hyde

Upon his death, a global discussion arose as to the mysteries of Damien's life and his work on the island of Molokaʻi. Much criticism came out of the Congregational and Presbyterian churches in Hawaiʻi. It is possible that these church leaders took a stance against Damien largely because of their bias against Catholicism. The most well-known treatise against Damien was by a Honolulu Presbyterian, Reverend C. M. Hyde, in a letter dated 2 August 1889 to a fellow pastor, Reverend H. B. Gage; in it, Hyde referred to Father Damien as "a coarse, dirty man" whose leprosy should be attributed to his "carelessness".

In 1889 Scottish author Robert Louis Stevenson and his family arrived in Hawaiʻi for an extended stay. While there Stevenson, also a Presbyterian, drafted a famous open letter as a rebuttal in defense of Damien. In the letter Stevenson answered Hyde's criticisms point by point.[16] He sought testimony from critical Protestants who knew the man, which he recorded in his diary. The treatise included some extracts, like the following which upbraided Rev. Hyde for his fault finding

But, sir, when we have failed, and another has succeeded; when we have stood by, and another has stepped in; when we sit and grow bulky in our charming mansions, and a plain, uncouth peasant steps into the battle, under the eyes of God, and succours the afflicted, and consoles the dying, and is himself afflicted in his turn, and dies upon the field of honour - the battle cannot be retrieved as your unhappy irritation has suggested. It is a lost battle, and lost for ever. One thing remained to you in your defeat - some rags of common honour; and these you have made haste to cast away

In writing to Hyde, Stevenson proved prescient:

If that world at all remember you, on the day when Damien of Molokai shall be named a Saint, it will be in virtue of one work: your letter to the Reverend H. B. Gage

Stevenson further chided Hyde for nit-picking Damien and failing to acknowledge his heroic virtue:

You are one of those who have an eye for faults and failures; that you take a pleasure to find and publish them; and that, having found them, you make haste to forget the overvailing virtues and the real success which had alone introduced them to your knowledge. It is a dangerous frame of mind

[Cronos]

RL Stevenson said about Hyde You are one of those who have an eye for faults and failures; that you take a pleasure to find and publish them; and that, having found them, you make haste to forget the overvailing virtues and the real success which had alone introduced them to your knowledge. It is a dangerous frame of mind

There are good, Christian Presbyterians and then there are those such as Dr Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde.

[Cronos]

1. This was not a blanket statement
2. Just as your group ponders and studies scripture so too does ours

[Cronos]

“They are brothers and sisters in Christ. I don’t have to agree with them in every matter, just the core of matter of salvation. Everything else really boils down to a minor doctrinal dispute” — well put

[Cronos]

The Proto-Indo-European language had a locative case expressing "place where", an adverbial function. The ending depended on the last vowel of the stem (consonant, a-, o-, i-, u-stems) and the number (singular or plural). Subsequently the locative case tended to merge with other cases: the genitive or dative. Some daughter languages retained it as a distinct case.

In the Hungarian language, nine such cases exist, yet the name locative case refers to a form (-t/-tt) used only in a few city/town names along with the inessive case or superessive case. It can also be observed in a few local adverbs and postpositions. It is no longer productive. Examples:

• Győrött (also Győrben), Pécsett (also Pécsen), Vácott (also Vácon), Kaposvárt and Kaposvárott (also Kaposváron), Vásárhelyt (also Vásárhelyen)
• itt (here), ott (there), imitt, amott (there yonder), alatt (under), fölött (over), között (between/among), mögött (behind) etc.

The town/city name suffixes -ban/-ben are the inessive ones, and the -on/-en/-ön are the superessive ones.

[Cronos]

No, one can't put all "Protestants" under the same umbrella in any way -- some, Lutherans and Anglicans are very, very close to orthodoxy, among others, well it can vary -- some groups like the SDAs are very ifffy...

Basically we have the Nicene Creed (you can use the small "c" for catholic of course) -- All who affirm what is in this creed, one can have common ground with and share one's faith in Christ, Our Lord, God and Savior. With folks who share this common ground, one can discuss, debate in civility (hence the discussions with Belt, with Quix, etc. where one can actually learn where the other comes from)

Any who deny an aspect of this (like denying that Jesus is Lord God or in the resurrection of the dead), it's very difficult to find common ground with -- hence the arguments with met, RN, Dr. E or Paragon Defender etc.

[Cronos]

There are and were Presbyterians like RL Stevenson, Christians and then there are others who are not Christian but hide behind the term Presbyterian (by saying “so-and-so agreeth with me”) and bring discredit to true Christian Presbyterians.

[Belteshazzar]

In a post of two days ago I noted the following:

presently no screen name wrote:
“Jesus’ glorified body has no blood.”

Then I asked:

“And your scriptural proof for this statement is?”

I have not seen an answer yet? Will there be one forthcoming?

[Cronos]

Seriously, pnsm, met — why do you attack the True presence? It seems so obvious to me that this is what Christ told us to do — twice. why object to what the Master says?

[presently no screen name]

In a post of two days ago I noted the following:

WOW! I guess in the past two days, it wasn't important enough for you to find out for yourself.

[Belteshazzar]

pnsn, I need help. I can’t find any such verses in my Bible. In fact, I think that if were to search for yet another two days I still wouldn’t find them.

[presently no screen name]

Wrath always destroys

EVIL destroys.

That is why it must be used sparingly, with great care, and with a laser-like focus.

God's Wrath is yet to come. Tipping toe around evil is not what we are commanded. Spread the Gospel and make disciples. Those who do not want Him will come against Him/His Word in favor of man made teachings. Jesus turned away from them for He knew what was in their heart, He didn't tiptoe or use 'caution'. Receive or don't are the two options - there is no grey area. Follow HIM, HIS WORD completely or follow man.