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To: Campion; 1000 silverlings; metmom; boatbums; Quix; Gamecock; count-your-change; Alex Murphy; ...
The angel saluted Mary by calling her kecharitomene, which Jerome quite accurately translated as gratia plena, "full of grace". (kecharitomene is the perfect passive participle of charitoo, "to grace".)Kecharitomene means "already completely graced as an accomplished fact".

Original Word: χαριτόω
Transliteration: charitoó
Phonetic Spelling: (khar-ee-to'-o)
Short Definition: favor highly

rd Origin from charis
Definition
to make graceful, endow with grace NASB Word Usage
favored (1), freely bestowed (1).

Luke 1:28 καὶ εἰσελθὼν πρὸς αὐτὴν εἶπεν· χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη, ὁ κύριος μετὰ σοῦ. Having come in, the angel said to her, "Rejoice, you highly favored one! The Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women!"
Verb: Perfect Passive Participle Vocative Singular Feminine

Literal greek translation

Young's Literal Translation And the messenger having come in unto her, said, 'Hail, favoured one, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women;'

Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

plērēs=full
charis= grace

John 1:14 Greek Study Bible (Apostolic / Interlinear) Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν, καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός, πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας.

And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld his glory the glory as of the only begotten of the Father full of grace and truth

Acts 6:8 refers to Stephen as plErEs charitos, so it's literally "full of grace" and just the same as the description used of Jesus in John 1:14...It is Stephen that has the same words used of him as Jesus ..not Mary

Moreover, Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law perfectly.

Jesus is the ONLY ONE that could or ever would keep the law perfectly ...in order to be SINLESS one would need to keep the law PERFECTLY ..obviously Mary did not ...so she could not be "sinless"

But at the same time, He alone among all men actually created his own mother

Just as He has created all His brothers and sisters.. and all of them that will burn in hell..

How can creating someone in sin be honoring them? Doesn't sin dishonor everything it touches?

That is what the Pharisees thought , that is why the rebuked Jesus for eating and drinking with the drunkards and tax collectors and prostitutes

Jesus came for sinners not the righteous.. if Mary was perfect and sinless He did not come for her

You really can't have a sinful Mary and a divine Jesus and a Jesus who kept the Law of Moses perfectly. Pick any two.

HUH?, where do we find that in scripture?Or is that your own personal interpretation of the bible ??

267 posted on 12/16/2010 10:21:19 AM PST by RnMomof7 (Gal 4:16 asks "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?")
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To: RnMomof7
Indeed if the word “grace” were dropped and the simple term “favor” used it would make for much less confusion about what was being said. “Grace” is not some magical quality laid upon or changing a person but a receipt of God's favor, not at all mystical or complicated.
298 posted on 12/16/2010 11:59:06 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: RnMomof7; Campion; 1000 silverlings; metmom; boatbums; Quix; Gamecock; count-your-change; ...
The angel saluted Mary by calling her kecharitomene, which Jerome quite accurately translated as gratia plena, "full of grace". (kecharitomene is the perfect passive participle of charitoo, "to grace".)Kecharitomene means "already completely graced as an accomplished fact".

The traditional translation, "full of grace," is better than the one found in many recent versions of the New Testament, which give something along the lines of "highly favored daughter." Mary was indeed a highly favored daughter of God, but the Greek implies more than that (and it never mentions the word for "daughter").

Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of charitoo, meaning "to fill or endow with grace." Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates that Mary was graced in the past but with continuing effects in the present. So, the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit.

Luke 1:28 has the perfect passive participle, kecharitomene. The perfect stem of a Greek verb denotes the "continuance of a completed action";(Blass and DeBrunner, 175.) "completed action with permanent result is denoted by the perfect stem."(Smyth, sec. 1852:b.) On morphological grounds, therefore, it is correct to paraphrase kecharitomene as "completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace." This becomes clearer when we examine other New Testament examples of verbs in the perfect tense:(The next three examples are taken from Blass and DeBrunner, 175-176.)

1. "He has defiled this sacred place" (Acts 21:28)--their entrance in the past produced defilement as a lasting effect.

2. "The son of the slave woman was born according to the flesh" (Gal. 4:23)--the perfect with reference to an Old Testament event can mean it retains its exemplary effect.

3. "Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?" 1 Cor. 9:1, Acts 22:15)--that Paul has seen the Lord is what establishes him permanently as an apostle.

1. "God spoke to Moses" (John 9:29)--the Pharisees hold that the Mosaic Law still and always holds.

2. "It is finished" (John 19:30)--the work of redemption culminating in the passion and death of Christ is complete and forever enduring .

3 "He rose on the third day" (1 Cor. 15:4)--unlike Lazarus who was raised from the dead but must die again, Christ rose to everlasting life.

4. "All things have been created through him and for him" (Col. 1:16)--all creation continually exists, upheld by God (this is the teaching of God's universal providence and also the refutation of deism).

Here are examples, like kechari-tomene, of perfect participles in the New Testament:

1. "To the praise of his glorious grace, which he bestowed on us in his beloved"(Eph. 1:6)--Christ is perfectly, completely, endlessly loved by his Father.

2. "Blessed is the fruit of your womb" (Luke 1:42)--Christ is perfectly and endlessly blessed by God.

Because Luke 1:28 uses the perfect participle kecharitomene to describe Mary, CRI is wrong to say there is nothing in this verse to establish the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception. One word of one Bible verse does not prove the doctrine, but kecharitomene proves the harmony of the doctrine with Scripture.
using the resources that Latin does have, Jerome expresses the root meaning of charitoo by the Latin noun gratis ("grace," "favor") and the amplitude and completeness of the Greek perfect tense by the Latin adjective plena ("full"). The Latin phrase does not well connote permanent condition, as the Greek perfect participle does.
Remember again, Mary is not by her own power, virtue, or merit sinless. It was not her merits but those of her Son which were applied to her

337 posted on 12/16/2010 3:43:39 PM PST by Cronos (Et Verbum caro factum est et habitavit in nobis (W Szczebrzeszynie chrzaszcz brzmi w trzcinie))
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