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Joseph Smith: An Apostle of Jesus Christ
LDS.org ^ | Dennis B. Neuenschwander

Posted on 01/02/2011 5:46:30 PM PST by Paragon Defender

Joseph Smith: An Apostle of Jesus Christ

By Elder Dennis B. Neuenschwander Of the Seventy

 

 

 

Dennis B. Neuenschwander, “Joseph Smith: An Apostle of Jesus Christ,” Ensign, Jan 2009, 16–22

Adapted from a presentation to the Seventy.

 

 

 

In the Doctrine and Covenants we read that Joseph Smith was “called of God, and ordained an apostle of Jesus Christ” (D&C 20:2). The call of an Apostle is first to witness or testify of Jesus Christ. Old Testament prophets testified of His coming. The New Testament Apostles bore personal witness of Christ’s being and of the absolute reality of His Resurrection. This apostolic witness was the basis of their teaching. “Ye shall be witnesses unto me” (Acts 1:8) was Jesus’s instruction to the original Twelve. Peter testified on the day of Pentecost to the Jews who had gathered “out of every nation” (Acts 2:5) that “this Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses” (Acts 2:32). Similarly, Paul wrote to the Corinthians that Jesus “was seen of me also” (1 Corinthians 15:8). The sure witness of Christ’s being and the reality of His Resurrection is the first pillar of apostolic testimony.

The second pillar is centered on the Savior’s redemptive and saving power. Peter teaches that to the Lord “give all the Prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins” (Acts 10:43).

Without these twin pillars of testimony concerning Christ, there could be no Apostle. Such testimonies are born of experience, divine command, and instruction. For example, Luke writes that Christ showed Himself to the Apostles “alive after his passion … being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God” (Acts 1:3).

How does the Prophet Joseph Smith fit into these apostolic requirements? The answer is “Perfectly.”

The First Vision

Joseph Smith’s apostolic instruction began in 1820. Pondering the questions of religion, he soon found that there was no way to reason or argue one’s opinion to an authoritative conclusion concerning the correctness of the various churches or their doctrines. Short of a divine manifestation, young Joseph could add only one more opinion to the already existing “war of words and tumult of opinions” (Joseph Smith—History 1:10). But Joseph’s questions on religion were answered by the personal and physical manifestation of God the Father and His divine and living Son, Jesus Christ—an experience referred to as the First Vision.

Like that of the original Apostles, Joseph’s experience with Deity was direct and personal. There was no need for the opinion of others or the deliberations of a council to define what he saw or what it came to mean to him. Joseph’s vision was at first an intensely personal experience—an answer to a specific question. Over time, however, illuminated by additional experience and instruction, it became the founding revelation of the Restoration.

As apostolic as this manifestation of Christ’s being, existence, and Resurrection was to Joseph Smith, it was not the only thing Jesus wanted to teach him. The boy Joseph’s first lesson arose from the manifestation of Christ’s absolute, omnipotent, and divine power. Joseph learned firsthand at least one meaning of the redeeming and saving power of Christ when he prayed in the grove. As he began to pray, “Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction” (Joseph Smith—History 1:15). With every bit of energy Joseph had, he began to call upon God to deliver him from the grasp of this enemy.

“At the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction … , I saw a pillar of light. …

“It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound” (Joseph Smith—History 1:16–17).

Joseph Smith’s confrontation with the adversary is reminiscent of an experience Moses had, about which the Prophet would learn some few years later. Unlike the boy Joseph, however, Moses saw God’s greatness first and then was confronted with the power of the adversary before being delivered from his influence. (See Moses 1.)

The difference in the order of events is significant. Moses was already far into maturity and had much knowledge and influence prior to this event. By displaying His magnificent power to Moses before he faced the adversary, the Lord helped Moses put his life into perspective. After experiencing God’s glory, Moses said, “Now, for this cause I know that man is nothing, which thing I never had supposed” (Moses 1:10). This incident enabled Moses to withstand the temptations of the adversary that followed.

Joseph Smith, on the other hand, was an inexperienced young man, who in his lifetime would repeatedly face adversarial power and the overwhelming problems it brings. By facing the adversary first, then being saved from his assault by the appearance of the Father and the Son, Joseph learned this indelible lesson: as great as the power of evil might be, it must always withdraw with the appearance of righteousness.

This lesson was critical in Joseph’s apostolic education. He needed this knowledge not only because of the personal trials that lay ahead of him but also because of the overwhelming opposition he would face in founding and directing the Church.

The boy Joseph went into the grove seeking wisdom, and wisdom he received. His apostolic instruction had begun. Among the great apostolic lessons of this First Vision were both the physical nature of the Savior and Heavenly Father and the initial and fundamental lessons relating to Their power—each a pillar of apostolic testimony.

The Book of Mormon

Joseph Smith’s early apostolic instruction continued with his translation of the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon gave Joseph access to “the fulness of the everlasting Gospel” (Joseph Smith—History 1:34), principles that were necessary to understand even prior to the organization of the Church. The Prophet was introduced to numerous “plain and most precious” (1 Nephi 13:26) prophetic and apostolic testimonies regarding the Savior, all of which served as models for him.

Indeed, the Book of Mormon prophets employ over 100 titles in their teachings of Christ, each of which helped Joseph understand the Savior’s divine role.1 By virtue of these teachings, Joseph Smith became intimately acquainted with ancient prophets, giving him insight into the divine purpose of his responsibilities.

The Book of Mormon illuminates the universality of Christ’s Atonement. The Savior’s holy sacrifice is not confined to the borders of the Holy Land of His day or even restricted to the apostolic world of the original Twelve. The Atonement encompasses all of God’s creations—past, present, and future. What an impression Jacob’s teaching of the “infinite atonement” (2 Nephi 9:7) must have made on the mind of young Joseph, especially in contrast to Christian teachings at the time.

The Book of Mormon also introduces the universality of the Resurrection and other doctrines relating to it. Discourses on this doctrine by Lehi, Jacob, King Benjamin, Abinadi, Alma, Amulek, Samuel the Lamanite, and Moroni are all rich sources of instruction.

During the translation of the Book of Mormon, the Prophet received additional valuable personal instruction concerning the redemptive and saving power of Christ. In 1828 Martin Harris persuaded Joseph to lend him the first 116 pages of the Book of Mormon manuscript. When Martin Harris lost those pages, the Prophet felt an enormous despair.2 His mother, Lucy Mack Smith, recorded that Joseph exclaimed: “Oh, my God! … All is lost! all is lost! What shall I do? I have sinned—it is I who tempted the wrath of God. … How shall I appear before the Lord? Of what rebuke am I not worthy from the angel of the Most High?”3

For well over a month the Lord left Joseph in this terrible condition of remorse.4 Then came relief and the apostolic lesson. The Lord told Joseph:

“The works, and the designs, and the purposes of God cannot be frustrated, neither can they come to naught. …

“For although a man may have many revelations, and have power to do many mighty works, yet if he boasts in his own strength, and sets at naught the counsels of God, and follows after the dictates of his own will and carnal desires, he must fall and incur the vengeance of a just God upon him” (D&C 3:1, 4).

These words carefully describe what Joseph Smith had been experiencing. He had learned the exacting nature of the apostolic call and to whom the Apostle, at all cost, owes his loyalty. “Although men set at naught the counsels of God, and despise his words,” Joseph was told, “yet you should have been faithful” (D&C 3:7–8). Joseph Smith had lost access to the plates for a season and had been taught an invaluable lesson. Subsequently, the plates were returned, and his position as translator restored.

How critical were the lessons provided by the translation of the Book of Mormon as Joseph Smith grew in his apostolic calling! The Book of Mormon is the “keystone of our religion”5 because it contains so many prophetic testimonies of Christ and stands as a tangible witness of the Restoration.

Continuing Revelation and Scripture

After finishing the translation of the Book of Mormon in 1829 and organizing the Church in 1830, Joseph Smith had the opportunity to receive continuing apostolic education through the process of translating other scripture. This included three years of translating the Bible and, beginning in 1835, translating the book of Abraham. Joseph Smith’s translation of the Bible expanded his understanding of the role of Old Testament prophets and New Testament Apostles. It also resulted in additional revelation, namely the book of Moses.

The book of Moses provided the Prophet with important knowledge about the Savior’s ministry, including His role in the Creation. “The Lord spake unto Moses, saying: … I am the Beginning and the End, the Almighty God; by mine Only Begotten I created these things” (Moses 2:1). Further, He said, “And worlds without number have I created; … and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten” (Moses 1:33).

The book of Moses clarified Christ’s relationship to the Father in the premortal existence and reinforced the Prophet’s understanding of the ascendant power of righteousness. One of the most beautiful of all the apostolic lessons that came to Joseph Smith in this revelation was the confirmation of God’s love. It was so different from the harsh, unforgiving, and judgmental personage so many believed God to be; the book of Moses reveals a God of infinite compassion. Enoch saw that the “God of heaven … wept” (Moses 7:28) over those who would not receive Him. Wishing to know how it was possible, Enoch was given an answer that has a familiar biblical feel to it: “I [have] given commandment, that they should love one another, and that they should choose me, their Father. … Wherefore should not the heavens weep, seeing these shall suffer?” (Moses 7:33, 37; see also Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18; Matthew 22:37–39).

Through the translation of the book of Moses, the Prophet also became more acquainted with the redeeming and saving power of the Savior. As the Lord said, this earth was created “by the word of my power” (Moses 1:32) for the purpose of bringing “to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39). Many long years before the Savior taught Thomas and the Twelve that “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me” (John 14:6), He revealed to Moses that “this is the plan of salvation unto all men, through the blood of mine Only Begotten, who shall come in the meridian of time” (Moses 6:62).

The First Vision in the grove, the translation of the Book of Mormon, the revision of the Bible, the revelation of the book of Moses, and the translation of the book of Abraham laid the basic foundation of the Church, largely through the rapidly expanding knowledge and testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith relating to Jesus Christ.

Revelations given to him and compiled in the Doctrine and Covenants contain a wealth of knowledge concerning the Savior. One could research the numerous topics and cross-references of the Topical Guide and Guide to the Scriptures referring to Jesus Christ and still not understand the breadth of information on the Savior that the Prophet Joseph Smith brought to the world. I am grateful to know that Jesus was “in the beginning with the Father” (D&C 93:21). I am grateful to know that He “suffered these things for [me], that [I] might not suffer if [I] would repent” (D&C 19:16).

My Testimony of What the Prophet Revealed

I am grateful for yet one other thing about the Savior’s ministry that stirs my soul deeply. From studying the promises of Malachi, Moroni’s initial visit with Joseph, the Savior’s words to the Nephites, and the visit of Elijah in the Kirtland Temple, I learn that God loves His children and has provided a way for each to return to Him. I know of no doctrine more just, no teaching that gives more hope than that of redemption of the dead. I am so grateful for the revelations that teach me that the Savior’s Atonement reaches to those who have lived, loved, served, and hoped for a better day yet never heard of Jesus or had the opportunity to embrace His gospel. This knowledge alone would be sufficient to convert me to the gospel if I knew nothing else at all. Here, at least for me, is the ultimate testimony of Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice.

What, then, can be said of the incomparable saving power of Christ? That which Joseph Smith learned in the Sacred Grove about the power of righteousness overcoming evil foreshadows the final scene. So reveals the Lord:

“I, having accomplished and finished the will of him whose I am, even the Father, concerning me—having done this that I might subdue all things unto myself—

“Retaining all power, even to the destroying of Satan and his works at the end of the world, and the last great day of judgment” (D&C 19:2–3).

Our own testimonies of the Savior are framed by the testimony and teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. Is it any wonder then that the Prophet taught that “the fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.”6

Joseph Smith’s apostolic testimony of the divine reality and the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, as well as his knowledge of the redemptive and saving power of the Savior, can best be seen by the Prophet’s own beautiful, powerful, and succinct witness:

“And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!

“For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—

“That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God” (D&C 76:22–24).

How grateful I am for the apostolic call of Joseph Smith.

 

 

 

Notes

1. See Book of Mormon Reference Companion, ed. Dennis L. Largey (2003), 457–58.

2. See Lucy Mack Smith, History of Joseph Smith, ed. Preston Nibley (1958), 128–29.

3. History of Joseph Smith, 128, 129.

4. The 116 pages were lost in June 1828. In July Joseph Smith received what is now section 3 of the Doctrine and Covenants. In September the plates were returned to the Prophet. See the historical introductions to D&C 3; 10.

5. History of the Church, 4:461.

6. History of the Church, 3:30.

 

 

 

 

 

 


TOPICS: Breaking News; Other Christian; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: braking; cult; heresy; inman; lds; lies; mormon; notbreakingnews; propaganda; religion
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To: WVKayaker

a burning fire shut up in [their] bones.”
________________________________________________

Yes well they say there is an itching burning feeling in your hands (the bones apparantly) when lots of money is in your future...

The Smith family always had been after the quick buck...


601 posted on 01/03/2011 10:44:51 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Paragon Defender
I've read every one of your links, and a pattern emerges.

The questions I ask are not answered, but defelected according to the LDS Missionary "answer the question they should have asked" training on how to lie.

Harry Reid democrats would be proud, but my simple question has not been answered.

602 posted on 01/03/2011 10:47:03 AM PST by SENTINEL (Mormonism...from Ezra Taft Benson to Reid and Romney in only one generation.)
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To: Tennessee Nana
What about posting a caucus thread in order to ridicule a group ???

That is a violation of the Caucus rules, and I've seen threads which had their caucus designation removed because of violating that rule.

This is the first caucus thread I can remember which had it's designation removed, and was moved from religion to breaking news, because a moderator or the site owner disagreed with the theological point being made in the caucus.

Now that it's done, it is known to be a possibility. Any person posting a Caucus thread will now have to consider this new rule -- threads can be moved and caucus protection removed if the authorities disagree with the theology of the thread. Doubt it will happen, but it is something new.

603 posted on 01/03/2011 10:47:32 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: WVKayaker

Almost immediately his followers performed miracles, beginning with a dramatic levitation and exorcism which inaugurated the restoration of primitive Christianity. ...
____________________________________________________

levitation...

floating in mid air...

from primitive something...

but not Christianity...


604 posted on 01/03/2011 10:49:07 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: reaganaut; Tara
Tara, I have been following your posts for awhile now, and you appear to me to be a ‘seeker’

Yes, I would agree to this. ...as well that she is being targeted into the Mormon clutches.........Tara is not alone in seeking the "right way"...which is as you said thru a 'relationship' with Christ not a church or a denomination...and "faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God."

She knows just enough of Christianity to be a target by just about any false religion or cult. She would do very well to stay close to the scriptures and seek the truth between the Lord and Herself. He never fails a true seeker and will meet them along the way....Additionally pay attention to those who have come out of the Mormon church and know exactly what it's about and the false teachings they deceive with.There are several on this thread who are more than acquainted with it's teachings, but moreso know well the scripture truth as it really is intended.

It was said to me once..."When the student of Gods word is ready, God will provide the teacher..." I have found this to be true...and He will confirm as much those who He chooses.... And I can guarantee it won't be by any "burning in the bosum".

Also the Lord wants to stretch our ability to discern rightly between truth and falsehood....An interesting tidbit is those who work distinguishing counterfeit money from the real thing are NOT taught what a counterfeit looks like....they are taught every detail and hours of training in distinguishing the real thing. Because they know the real thing so very well they can spot a counterfeit in a heartbeat!

Religiosity and Churchianity are plentiful....and many are drawn to 'feeling religious' by going to church....but the "real deal" is found in Christ and the relationship He desires with us on a personal level...then we are ready to reveal His life thru us and reflect Him within the church body we attend.

605 posted on 01/03/2011 10:50:39 AM PST by caww
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To: Cronos
LOLOL! But, no, I found those links on my own.
606 posted on 01/03/2011 10:50:46 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: TaraP; colorcountry; ejonesie22; Godzilla

We aren’t saying you can’t be friends with them. I have Mormon, Wiccan and atheist friends, but that doesn’t mean I consider them to be Christian and it also doesn’t mean that I will not tell them the truth about Christ, who He is, and what He did to save us.

Keeping quiet isn’t a witness. I used to think people would know I was a Christian because of my behavior and I didn’t have to tell them. I was shocked to find out that most of my friends thought I was a nice athiest and never occured to them i was a Christian. So I started to be more vocal and forceful (not necessarily a peacemaker) with my unbelieving friends (I am a peacemaker within the Body of Christ) and rather than shun me, several of them got saved.

What can you do? You can research their beliefs, learn to counter them, and TELL THEM THE TRUTH!!

Stand for Christ or stand aside.


607 posted on 01/03/2011 10:50:46 AM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Paragon Defender; SENTINEL
lol it is so sad that all the anti-Mormons have is the same old tired and worn out regurgitated propaganda.

Lurkers will note - the "worn out regurgitated propaganda", is from an official lds publication "History of the Church". Additional "worn out regurgitated propaganda", was also published by the mormon church in the Nauvoo Neighbor in 1843. More propagands was published by the lds in the 1904 issue of Improvement Era. Again, more propaganda in the official Church publication, The Comprehensive History of The Church, by B.H. Roberts. Finally, to shorten the list - in 1979 apostle Mark E. Peterson wrote a book called “Those Gold Plates!”. In the first chapter Peterson describes various ancient cultures that have written records on metal plates. Then Peterson claims, “There are the Kinderhook plates, too, found in America and now in the possession of the Chicago Historical Society. Controversy has surrounded these plates and their engravings, but most experts agree they are of ancient vintage.” (page 3, Those Gold Plates, Mark E. Peterson)

Lurkers will note - these are all from LDS sources.

Lurkers will also note - metallurgical tests proved the plates to have been manufactured in the 1800's. Again from a 'propaganda' source -

"As a result of these tests, we concluded that the plate... is not of ancient origin....the plate was etched with acid; and as Paul Cheesman and other scholars have pointed out, ancient inhabitants would probably have engraved the plates rather than etched them with acid. Secondly, we concluded that the plate was made from a true brass alloy (copper and zinc) typical of the mid-nineteenth century: whereas the 'brass' of ancient times was actually bronze, an alloy of copper and tin." -- The Ensign, August 1981, pp. 66-70.

Mormonism believed for 130 years that the plates were authentic and that smith had truely identified them. Now, facts show they were fake and the translation smith started was also fake

Only a fake prophet translates fake plates.

Shown the truth the just obfuscate to the same old tired and worn out obfuscation.

608 posted on 01/03/2011 10:52:06 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: reaganaut

We have several LDS here who constantly go on about “my faith” (you’re insulting MY FAITH!”). But it sounds like they mean “the LDS faith”. Not necessarily their own personal faith, although their faith in their religion is strong.


609 posted on 01/03/2011 10:52:25 AM PST by T Minus Four ("Vital truths were restored by God through Joseph Smith. I just can't think of one")
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To: restornu

If this were so in all these years there would be proof not assumptions and hearsay.
______________________________________________

Yes youre right Resty

However the mormons have produced no proof

Just more assumptions and heresay...


610 posted on 01/03/2011 10:52:45 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: ejonesie22; Saundra Duffy

True, I forgot that LDS godhood is the advanced version of the “Heman’s women haters club”

- - - - -
‘on Steroids’. LOL.

Remember that infamous post by Sandy where she claimed “Mormons are Christians on Steroids”?

I still laugh when I think of that.


611 posted on 01/03/2011 10:53:33 AM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: TaraP

Thanks I will take a look, the more posts I read describing Mormon doctrine the more it is sounding like *Scientology*

- - - - -
Glad to hear it. The more you read the scarier Mormonism gets. I wish there had been forums like this and sites like I linked to you when I was looking into Mormonism in the 1980s. I would have never have joined.


612 posted on 01/03/2011 10:55:08 AM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: greyfoxx39
it has been posted on FR that God is going to change DNA and genetics to conform to the Book of Mormon!

I saw that thread! Hilarious! Mormonism teaches the craziest things!

613 posted on 01/03/2011 10:55:18 AM PST by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis (Want to make $$$? It's easy! Use FR to pimp your blog!!!)
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To: restornu
Resty you should really not post from the bible.

I will embarass you every single time with what Joseph Smith changed it to in his inspired "retranslation"....And just who do you think you are as an LDS believer to second guess him ? You are cursed to live and abide by the JST, at least here on FR, EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU TRY TO DISTORT THE BIBLE TO JSUTIFY YOUR CULT....and you should know, some of his changes were UTTERLY SHOCKING !

(KJV)John 14:30
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

(JST)John 14:30
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you; for the prince of darkness, who is of this world, cometh, but hath no power over me, but he hath power over you.

614 posted on 01/03/2011 10:55:56 AM PST by SENTINEL (Mormonism...from Ezra Taft Benson to Reid and Romney in only one generation.)
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To: Tennessee Nana; WVKayaker

***a burning fire shut up in [their] bones.”**

Men in the military or who visit bars over in Oklahoma find a dose of penicillin works wonders on this! ;-D


615 posted on 01/03/2011 10:56:14 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (I visited GEN TOMMY FRANKS Military Museum in HOBART, OKLAHOMA! Well worth it!)
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To: restornu
If this were so in all these years there would be proof not assumptions and hearsay

Like the Book Of Mormon?

616 posted on 01/03/2011 10:56:37 AM PST by T Minus Four ("Vital truths were restored by God through Joseph Smith. I just can't think of one")
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To: Colofornian
Delph I have pointed out that polygamy is Biblical.

Well, David slept with Bathsheba. (Does that make adultery "Biblical"???)

Yes, it is biblical, Adultery was soundly condemned in the Bible, in fact the very serial polygamy we have now of Divorce and remarriage was condemned personally by Jesus (Matthew 5:31-32)

God told Hosea to marry a prostitute who continued to carry on that as a "cottage industry." (Does that make prostitution as your wife's "job" "Biblical," DU?)

No, it does not, she was still condemned in the scriptures.

God told Isaiah to walk around three years' naked (Is. 20:2-4). (Does that make exhibitionism "Biblical," DU?)

As usual, you're getting silly. Besides, waiting around naked,where I live, and well you wouldn't have to worry about prostitution... (Frostbite)

What a crock! You lack such basic discernment!

Back at you. Jesus fasted for Forty days, so did Moses, I don't think people should fast for 40 days (24 hours, sure, a couple of days maybe, 40 days, nope!)

DU, while we all have blinders somewhere, what's truly pathetic is your export yours on matters in which your basic lack of understanding has been exposed like Isaiah's private parts!

Your analogy is... disturbing, not going to go there.

So, you admit you have blinders? OK, have you ever considered what your posts will look like in retrospect when we turn out to be right and your "blinders" kept you from seeing it?

I didn't think so.

Tell us, DU, where God told ANYBODY to "go and get an extra wife?" (or something similar)

When David murdered Uriah, Nathan the prophet came to him and said: 2 Samual 12:7-8
7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;
8 And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.
So, God told David that he gave him all his wives, and would have given him more if that was too little. I believe this covers your "Go get another wife".

Logic 101: If God ever approved of Polygamy, and God does not change then God approves of polygamy now.

It's simple logic really.

Let me say that I am very happily married to Mrs. DelphiUser and have no plans or desire to practice the illegal, but moral practice of polygamy. nor do I plan to practice the legal but immoral practice of abortion.

My main point with polygamy is and always has been that:
Our laws, and our culture do not dictate God's law.
God's law should dictate our morals and in large part our laws.

God's law does not even seem to influence our laws anymore, this should be a problem for Conservatives, even if you don't like Mormons personally, you should agree with us logically on conservatism.

Your opinion probably varies, and that's OK too.

Delph
617 posted on 01/03/2011 10:56:39 AM PST by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: Religion Moderator

Wanted to make sure you were recognized for your efforts herding all us cats (O.o)


618 posted on 01/03/2011 10:56:40 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: SENTINEL
Isn't it revealing that the apologists fro Mormonism will make comments regarding 'as far as it is translated correctly', yet their own false prophet went through the entire KJ Bible and re=translated it from King James English, into King James English, even going sdo far as making changes to the Book of Revelations, yet LDS do not use this supposed 'made accurate' translation? ... ANd Smith was just as much a charlatan in his Smith version of the KJB, as shown with the inclusion of passages like the one addressed as 'The Comma Johanneum' and the use of the Latin name 'Lucifer' in Isaiah 14!

Again, the deceit-filled Mormonism apologists want to have it both ways: they claim the Bible 'where it is translated correctly', yet their own supposed prophet and seer retranslated this same King James Bible and kept these passages in which the apologists try to point to as proving the Bible to 'not be entirely accurate'. Only the father of lies uses such a duplicitous strategy.

619 posted on 01/03/2011 10:57:10 AM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: restornu; Utah Binger

And you want to wet on my leg and tell me in all through the years this FR contention will convert?

-0 - — - —
It has. A least 3 and kept one from joining. Not bad.


620 posted on 01/03/2011 10:57:22 AM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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