Posted on 01/14/2011 5:57:52 PM PST by topcat54
Evangelical book catalogs promote books such as Planet Earth: The Final Chapter, The Great Escape, and the Left Behind series. Bumper stickers warn us that the vehicle’s occupants may disappear at any moment. It is clear that there is a preoccupation with the idea of a secret rapture. Perhaps this has become more pronounced recently due to the expectation of a new millennium and the fears regarding potential Y2K problems. Perhaps psychologically people are especially receptive to the idea of an imminent, secret rapture at the present time. Additionally, many Christians are not aware that any other position relative to the second coming of Jesus Christ exists. Even in Reformed circles there are numerous people reading these books. Many of these people are unaware that this viewpoint conflicts with Scripture and Reformed Theology.
(Excerpt) Read more at reformed.org ...
Scripture reference please.
I think editor-surveyor was looking for evidence that the Paraclete would not be on earth during the Tribulation. Though I disagree with the Dispensationalists on who the subject in question is here, they claim that the "restrainer" is the Holy Spirit, and indeed modern translations capitalize the pronoun.
2 Thess 2:7-8 "For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way."
Dispy teaching says that when the Church is raptured, the Paraclete goes with them during the Tribulation Period. Now go back to all those passages that make the Paraclete central and critical for any hope of salvation, and we have the complete Scriptural refutation to the allegations that those who remain can somehow find Salvation.
No Holy Spirit, impossible to be saved. 1 Corinthians 2:14 says the Bible is unintelligible unless the Spirit is present to guide. IOW, without the active work of the Holy Spirit, the Bible is a closed book to the unregenerate - past, present and future.
>>If the Pope says we need to believe it then it is so.<<
“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:8-9
I don't think so, since E-S made the comment:
No, he Comforts the church, but he is removed when the church is removed .
I believe E-S is denying the presence of the Holy Spirit on earth during the futurist “great tribulation.”
All Scriptures testifies that such a view is not possible.
OK, I’m confused, and calling it a night.
Keep me on the list, I love learning from both you and your counterparts.
Scripture was enough for people to recognize Jesus for who He was. Jesus used Scripture alone for that purpose and all He had was the OT to top it off.
Put a sock in the sarcasm....it really is of no use here.
My interest and guide is not the reformers that still carried much of the baggage of the Catholic church but what the Scriptures tell us i.e., that before converts were baptized the were made disciples. That was the command of Christ and the Bible confirms it as the practice.
Disciple first, then baptism not the other way about.
I said:>>If the Pope says we need to believe it then it is so.<<
You said:“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:8-9
I now say:
Well, preaching a gospel that denies the power of binding and loosing that was given to Peter and his office (the papacy) seems to lead to lead to damnation, according to a narrow reading of your chosen Galatians verse.
The assumption of Mary is not contrary to the Gospel. I read the Galations verse to refer to any teaching opposed to previously declared doctrine.
MOST importantly, this entire dilemma has already been proven in Judaism.
The Pharisees believed in a written Torah AND an oral torah, and it was PRECISELY the oral tradition that Yeshua railed against, calling it "traditions of men". They had bolted on so many rules and regulations that the original Torah was nearly unrecognizable beneath their weight - And yet, it was still far closer to what YHWH commanded than what our legacy through the Roman church has left us.
Yeshua kept the true Torah (the written one), and He kept the Holy Days, as did His disciples. They built their arguments upon the Scriptures, which they revered, as it is plain to see.
He had to have kept the Law, as the very definition of sin IS breaking any part of the Law. That His disciples followed his example sets the same example for us.
This is the quintessential defense of sola-scriptura. Unfortunately, Protestant traditions, many (in fact, most) left over from Rome, make this defense erratic and imperfect.
Amen! That is the crux of the discussion. Dispensationalists believe there is a time when the Holy Spirit is not in this world, and there is no Scriptural basis for that view, as evidenced by your excellent verses in post 606.
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." -- Matthew 28:19-20 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
I don’t believe in playing games when someone’s eternal destiny is involved.
I'm glad to hear that. Now what should they do about dogma that does not agree with Scripture? What happens if some "tradition" is not confirmed by Scripture and/or is contradicted by it? I know about the "three-legged stool" idea, but my question concerns what has primacy in the case of such a dilemma?
For one, Unam Sanctam which states: Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff
That is not found in Scripture and, in fact, severely contradicts Scripture that says faith in Jesus Christ as Savior is what is necessary for salvation.
The bull also declared that the Church must be united, that the Pope was the sole and absolute head of the Church:
Therefore, of the one and only Church there is one body and one head, not two heads like a monster.
From Scripture we know that the head of the body of Christ is of course Jesus Christ and not a mere man on earth. There are many, many other dogmas and doctrines with which I disagree, but it is late and bed is calling my name. I was born and raised as a Roman Catholic and except for many of the invented doctrines, I still hold to the same doctrines that all true Christians have in common, I just do not "belong" to the Catholic Church anymore - the catholic, maybe, but not the Catholic. Good nite!
How nice you asked. God calls me his child. I became one by trusting in Jesus Christ as my Savior, believing that he died on the cross to pay for all my sins just like he said and I was born again into the family of God where he promises he will never lose me, cast me out, forsake me or stop being my Heavenly Father. It's not a "cult" but it is faith in the way, the truth and the life, who is Jesus.
“Can we conclude every Catholic has no problem serving satan if they stay w/the RCC?”
In all the time I have been reading this forum, I have wondered if someone would one day come along with a comment like this; a comment that directly connects the individual Catholic with “serving satan” simply by being a member of the Catholic Church.
pnsn has done it with this “conclusion” offered in question form.
Yes, the religion forum guidelines does allow a poster to write about a particular profession of faith in very inflammatory words-—as long as those words are not directed at the individual.
Yet-—even those who may not necessarily be “thin-skinned’ could easily and logically perceive that when such style and language is directed at a particular religious profession (in this case Catholic) that it has its impression and impact on any person of that faith.
But now-—”if every Catholic has no problem serving satan if they stay w/the RCC”—now, it is pointed directly at the individual Catholic.
In other words—don’t we Catholics realize that if we remain Catholic we are serving satan? So we have no problem with that? If we don’t come out and be saved, aren’t we serving satan? And isn’t that the ultimate apostasy and blasphemy and falling away into hell—to serve satan?
This is why I have increasingly found that coming to this forum is to know that unless I stay on the devotional and prayer threads (or Catholic Caucus threads) that I am just being thin-skinned to be on another thread where the on-going themes are all that is wrong with Catholicism, if I find it objectionable and if I recoil from it.
There are some here whose posting history is almost exclusively to denounce, deride, denigrate and deplore anything and all things Catholic. The subjective, anecdotal “all Catholics are....”(fill in the blanks) posts are offered again and again and again.
Popes are called Nazis—or Marxists—whichever fits the current thread theme. The 98.5 priests who have been faithful servants are marked and categorized wholly and unjustly as evil predators and as practitioners of “craft”. We are group-identified as morally lax, indifferent and/or arrogant—all this by limited and personal judgments.
Catholic beliefs and practices are called blasphemous and from the pit of hell-—addressed to Catholics on this forum who practice the Catholic faith -—and we are not to take it personally?—we who are practicing Catholics?
We who truly practice our faith know what it is like to live in our own parishes, to have relationships with our own parish priests, to have communio with our fellow Catholics, to know that it isn’t true that we “don’t crack our Bibles” because we know about our parish Bible study classes and our small communities that meet in homes and our growing number of lay communities that are affiliated with religious orders.
We know our daily Masses in every parish have at least 100 people every morning to participate in Mass, bringing their books with them that contain the Bible readings for all the Masses in the given year. We know of the parishes in our urban areas that hold Masses at noon where many people come on their lunch hour to go to Mass. They know of the parishes where there is not only a morning Mass but an early evening Mass, where people can stop for Mass on their way home from work. There are are often over 100 people there.
They know that quite a few parishes have chapels for adoration that are open 24 hours a day and are never empty, not even in the midnight hours. These chapels have been in existence for many, many years.
They know that many parishes have groups that meet during the week to pray together.
We are not seen. We are not known. We are not very visible to those who don’t know about us. But we are there.
There are also many good Catholics who have come and gone on this forum, who found that they could do more for their Faith by not spending much time at the keyboard; they found that it served no good purpose to explain and defend when explanations and legitimate defenses were not the agenda; the agenda is to denounce Catholicism—period.
“The RCC has it’s (sic) roots in the demonic”.
Is this truth because you say it?
I very much miss some of those Catholics who are no longer here, but I understand why. I am there now myself. Those Catholic FReepers were good people, sincere people, conservative people; they were/are people who deserve the admonition of Peter 2:17, “you must respect the person of every man”.
I also miss the presence of some of the thoughtful, courteous Protestants—men/women of good will who I see hardly ever post here anymore.
So, pnsn, I think your question (which I have offered at the top of my post here) is quite direct: “can we conclude every Catholic has no problem serving satan if they stay w/the RCC?”
I, as a Catholic, have given my life to the Lord Jesus. I know He is my Savior, my Redeemer and that in His Cross I have salvation. I acknowledge all that is offered in the “little Gospel” (Luke 1:68-79) by Zachariah; that I have “knowledge of salvation by the forgiveness of my sins”
There are a lot of Catholics who, like me, would say the same.
What are you to do about us, your brothers/sisters in Christ Jesus, pnsn?
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