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The Collapse of Cultural Catholicism
Standing on My Head ^ | 1/27/11 | Fr. Dwight Longenecker

Posted on 01/28/2011 9:32:34 AM PST by marshmallow

Shery Weddell at the St Catherine of Siena Institute reports that 32% of Americans raised Catholic abandon the identity altogether by their mid twenties. An additional 38% retain the identity but rarely practice their faith. 30% of those who call themselves Catholic attend Mass only once a month. On a given Sunday only about 15.6% of American Catholics attend Mass.

What is the reason for these disastrous statistics? Basically because for the last forty years Catholics themselves have not taught Catholicism to their children. They've taught 'American Catholicism' which is a watered down blend of sentimentalism, political correctness, community activism and utilitarianism. In other words, "Catholicism is about feeling good about yourself, being just to others and trying to change the world." The next generation have drawn the obvious conclusion that you don't need to go to Mass to do all that. You can feel good about yourself much more effectively with a good book from the self help shelf, or by attending a personal development seminar. You can be involved in making the world a better place without going to church.

If only 15% of Catholics go to Mass on a given Sunday, look around and see how many of them are old. Even the 15% who are there won't be there for very long.

The solution is simple: we must return to the supernatural realities of the historic faith and evangelize like the Apostles of old. The big difference is that the Apostles knew their targets were pagans and the pagans knew they weren't Christians. We're dealing with a huge population of Americans (Catholics and Protestants alike) who are pagan but who think they're 'good Christians.' It is very difficult to evangelize people who already think they're fine just as they are. We don't know what we don't know, and the vast majority of poorly catechized, lazy and worldly Catholics aren't aware that there's anything wrong.

What will it take for us to wake up?


TOPICS: Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: 376; ec
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To: ex 98C MI Dude
Do not use potty language - or references to potty language - on the Religion Forum.

Do not call other Freepers names. That along with reading minds and attributing motives are forms of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

201 posted on 01/28/2011 8:24:10 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: Quix

Quix:

Your all post caps is typical. My post was to the OP and my advice was that it should have been a caucas thread. The thread was about the Catholic Church in the United States and thus should be allowed as a caucas thread.


202 posted on 01/28/2011 8:24:16 PM PST by CTrent1564
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To: Quix

I see not the questons in your reponses to me.

Ask, for that I may attempt to answer.


203 posted on 01/28/2011 8:26:35 PM PST by ex 98C MI Dude (Alea Iacta Est)
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To: Quix
As you know, Yah'shua is discussing His view about "Anger"
21 "You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER ' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.'

22 "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

204 posted on 01/28/2011 8:27:38 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: CTrent1564

I don’t know if it would have qualified for caucus without the mention of Proddys, or not.

I, personally don’t think it would qualify with the last paragraph in.

I think it would be reasonable to have an RC caucus thread to talk about educating RC youth more effectively.

However, to drag Proddys into it—and not expect Proddys to respond—is not only against the caucus designation—it’s absurd.


205 posted on 01/28/2011 8:32:30 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix

Quix:

Ok, where exactly in the OP’s article was Protestantism or any particular group or sect of Protestantism specifically mentioned. If you can show me where, then you have a point based on the forums standards and guidelines.

For me, I never go into Mormon, Calvinist, Baptist, Joel Osteen, etc, etc, threads because what is the point, even when those are not labeled caucas threads.

The only time I do get into threads started by Protestants if those get into comparative theology and then it is obvious the point of the thread is to compare and contrast certain doctrinal differences, ie. the Catholic CHurch’s doctrine on sacraments vs. Anglican, Lutheran, Calvinist-Reformed, pentecostal, etc, etc.

If a Catholic OP posts and article that clearly sets out to disucss differences in Catholic vs Protestant doctrines on things like justification, authority, etc, then by all means, you all should have the right to respond.

But again, I don’t think the post by Marshmallow was a post that sat out to go into issues of Protestant church attendance, etc, etc.


206 posted on 01/28/2011 8:37:59 PM PST by CTrent1564
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To: Religion Moderator; Jim Robinson

What “potty language” was contained therein, Religion Mod, so that I might avoid such in the future?


207 posted on 01/28/2011 8:38:32 PM PST by ex 98C MI Dude (Alea Iacta Est)
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To: ex 98C MI Dude

Perhaps I’m mixing posters up.

MY ERROR, I WAS ASKING:

To: MindBender26
Much appreciated. Thanks tons.

Has your source ever said anything about . . .

—when WWIII is scheduled?

—UFO’s etc.

—overt global government

—New Madrid quake and resulting Gulf of Mex changes toward Great Lakes

—animal die-offs

HERE:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2665096/posts?page=137#137


However

I’m fairly certain interesting END TIMES RELATED things have gone on in your neck of the woods, if you care to SAFELY-TO-YOU comment, that would be wonderful.


208 posted on 01/28/2011 8:41:27 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Judith Anne

Did Mary , Jesus’ mother, give you permission to abuse her name like you did in your tagline?

...ps, I’m former rcc.


209 posted on 01/28/2011 8:41:35 PM PST by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: Joya

You are welcome. I have never stated that one must be Catholic to be Christian. Indeed I usually have to defend against those who claim that to be Catholic means to not be Christian.


210 posted on 01/28/2011 8:44:30 PM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012

QUITE SO. QUITE SO.

And an important note he was making for all time, no doubt.

Gads some of those lessons have come at high tuition.

Thx.

LUB

Oh, the uhhhhh procedure is now scheduled for May 13, IIRC.


211 posted on 01/28/2011 8:44:38 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: ModelBreaker

YES. THE TRUTH PROJECT SERIES

BY FOCUS ON THE FAMILY

IS EXCELLENT.

DR D TACKET? I FORGET HIS FAMILY NAME.


212 posted on 01/28/2011 8:46:59 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: lastchance

Thanks. I don’t have time or energy to hang out on the ‘Net much, so my reading and my posting is hit or miss. I appreciate your heart, thanks for being such a blessing.


213 posted on 01/28/2011 8:59:07 PM PST by Joya (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house ...)
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To: Religion Moderator

I am seriously asking you why this can not have been a caucus thread. I understand it might have taken some editing. But we were not even permitted to begin discussing the article before nonsense like the following appeared. They came to this thread to attack. We had not written anything that could be construed as anti Protestant. So this was not in response to any unjust allegation. But the usual suspects just could not resist. In fact Top Hat pinged them in order to bring their attention and their never ending attack to the thread

“To: marshmallow; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; RnMomof7
‘The solution is simple: we must return to the supernatural realities of the historic faith and evangelize like the Apostles of old.’
Sounds like Protestantism. topcat54

So instead of having a peaceful and edifying discussion on a Catholic matter we have to defend and parry against the likes of the following:

Why don’t you stay off our threads and well gladly staff off yours.

Happily, if Rome, like the LDS, would simply give up the name of “Christian.”

As long as Rome purports to be a Christian faith, and yet so mangles the truth of Scripture and the knowledge of Christ that it follows “another Christ” and prays to a “co-redeemer,” we will be here to set the record straight, according to the word of God alone.

37 posted on Friday, January 28, 2011 4:10:52 PM by Dr. Eckleburg

Why do we have to put up with this? Is it fair? We had no intention of criticizing Protestant beliefs. The one mention in the article was certainly not the substance of the article and its removal would not change the point of the article at all.

So we have a case of people coming to a thread to be disruptive, abusive and to spread malice. Please show me one example of where this has been done in kind. When the subject was not Catholic teaching.

Is there anything that can be done to make this a Caucus or has their tactic of coming over and libeling our faith and our response taken that possibility away for certain?

Is this abuse what we can always expect?


214 posted on 01/28/2011 9:05:13 PM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: Joya

May Our Lord always increase your joy.


215 posted on 01/28/2011 9:06:47 PM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: CTrent1564; Cronos; Judith Anne; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; ...

I just reviewed the first 15 or so posts.

It was off and running before the 10th post.

I only chose to enter the fray because of

the assault about

Anti-[Roman]-Catholic bigots

at post 13.

I think it’s perfectly reasonable for y’all to be able to discuss educating RC youth more effectively under a caucus label.

However, y’all might have to police yourselves better if y’all want to keep it cleanly worthy the caucus designation.

Also, the double standard stuff comes up with annoying frequency and will likely always be a hot-button issue for many of us Proddys. That doesn’t have to destroy a caucus designation.

However, in the average RC thread, I earnestly endeavor to be quite charitable and civil in a conventional sense as long as I am treated that way . . . unless and until I come across outrageous hypocrisy, outrageous double standard stuff, outrageous idolatry, blasphemy or grossly heretical stuff to the point of being potentially enormously spiritually hazardous to one and all lurkers etc.

The outrageous comment at post 13 deserved a slap-down and got it.

Folks who think they can assault Proddys glibly in the most outrageous terms—particularly with great hypocrisy and demonstration of a double standard—will likely persistently get a fierce response from some Proddys. It is our duty.

Cronos and I have exchanged some extremely fierce stuff over the years. And it is conceivable in the future.

However, we had some very fine mutually respectful exchanges of enough substance and duration that I moved him into the category of those I choose to bend over backwards being civil towards regardless of our fierce theological differences. That’s just a habit and preference of mine. And, baring a LOT of personally directed or extremely outrageous assertions on his part, I expect to continue a civil, mutually respectful tone with him.

I have no illusions about him altering his perspective. I have no illusions about him having totally angelic motives 100% of the time in 100% of his posts to me any more than he has re mine to him. However, that’s just my choice and habit, preference.

I’ve exercised it with a list of horribly assaultive RC’s over the years. Some have seemed to bend over backwards destroying the charitable tone and attitude, preference on my part and I’ve ended up moving them back into the category they seem most determined to reside in.

I just note that to assert what is possible and has been carried out from my side on such scores for years.

On the other hand, those RC’s who are chronically thin-skinned; outrageously personally assaultive; outrageously mean-spirited, bitter, etc. etc. etc. can expect to be responded to with equally emotional intensity. It is my duty. The onlookers will not get the impression from me that the Proddy perspective is weak casper milque toast, neutered, of no significant consequence or not worthy of a fiercely intense presentation, defense, responses.

OF COURSE I tweak RC sensibilities. And, evidently, I do it above average. PTL for that. Someone needs to. The piles of RC offensiveness that get spewed on FR can be mountainous. It doesn’t have to be so. A majority of the more core BIBLICAL constructs of Roman Catholocism could be stated in terms which would not trigger such a response on my part.

And, I’ve repeatedly encouraged and tried to foster dialogue, even negotiations to try and see if some set of criteria for posting could be agreed upon between the two sides that would be seen by one and all as evidence of true Christians demonstrating true Christian charity toward one another in virtually all of our posting.

Time and again thin-skinned, bitter, hostile, outrageously assaultive, outrageously arrogantly parochial RC’s have shredded such efforts.

At this point, y’all deserve all the fierceness y’all receive. It seems like that’s all some folks are comfortable with.

I could write a lot more paragraphs on such a topic but I’ll just stop here.


216 posted on 01/28/2011 9:08:21 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix

Quix:

The thread, in my view, was hijacked in the first 10 posts. I mean, it seems like there is a link of a certain group of your cohort that as soon as one of these threads is posted, which was just the opinion of a Catholic Priest [Fr. Longeneker] and some of the challenges facing the Catholic Church in the U.S, that same cohort jumps in and starts its bashing.

Fr. Longeneker, btw, started out as a Bob-Jones trained Fundalmentalist, who then became an Anglican, who is now a Catholic priest. So he has seen the challenges facing 2 protestant groups [Fundalmenatlist-Bapist] and Anglican [he was in the evangelical wing of the Church of England] before coming Catholic so he has dealt with this issue in 2 different protestant communities and the Catholic Church.


217 posted on 01/28/2011 9:18:28 PM PST by CTrent1564
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To: Quix

Quix:

Look back through the thread. Whose posts were more vitrolic? The Catholics in this thread or the Protestants.


218 posted on 01/28/2011 9:21:05 PM PST by CTrent1564
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To: lastchance; marshmallow
This is an "open" thread in the Religion Forum meaning posters may argue for and against dieties, beliefs, religious authorities, etc. It is a town square and therefore often contentious.

If you or marshmallow would like a private Catholic-only thread, then find a similar article that doesn't mention other beliefs and label it "Catholic Caucus."

If you want anyone to be able to post, but you don't want antagonism, label it "ecumenical."

Thick skin is required for the town square format of "open" religious debate. Those who are offended by that style of debate should IGNORE "open" RF threads altogether and instead post on "ecumenical" "Caucus" "prayer" or "devotional" RF threads.

219 posted on 01/28/2011 9:22:17 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: Religion Moderator

There was no mention of other beliefs.


220 posted on 01/28/2011 9:25:43 PM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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