Posted on 03/12/2011 11:25:57 AM PST by Amerisrael
ARAD, Israel - For the past seven years, the small Messianic Jewish community in the southern Israeli town of Arad has been harassed and persecuted by ultra-Orthodox Jews who accuse them of missionary activity.
The small desert town, with a population of 25,000 mostly secular residents, is home to a growing number of Israeli believers.
Yakim Figueras, pastor of one of the four congregations there, told CBN News that for years, religious Jews have subjected the believing community to sometimes daily cursing and harassment outside their homes.
"They come with either half-truths against us or complete lies…and they entice their own people and try to bring others against us," Figueras said.
On Wednesday, a demonstration organized by Yad L'achim, the aggressive anti-missionary organization, brought about 200 protesters to the home of Polly Sigulim. Their message was clear.
See also: http://roshpinaproject.com/2011/03/11/report-on-anti-messianic-jewish-demo-in-arad/
Yad L'Achim Advises Chinese on Cult Fighting http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/130012
[how better to oppress followers of Yeshua/Jesus]
(Excerpt) Read more at cbn.com ...
Absolutely. After 2,000 years, no one can claim that Christians haven't been patient.
The Messianic Jews I know are all of Jewish lineage.
My sister-in-law is a Messianic Jew. She was born to Conservative Jewish parents, and thus was as Jewish as you on the day she was born. She later became a Messianic. She observes Passover and the other Jewish holidays.
So you're telling me that she is not a Jew any more?
A basic tenet of Judaism is the belief that the Messiah has yet to arrive - it forbids a belief in Jesus as anything Messianich.
So you're saying that Hasidic Jews who decided that Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson was the Messiah, by that decision lost their status as Jews?
Once you convert out, you are no longer a Jew. Christianity stopped being a Jewish sect as soon as they no longer needed to be a Jew in order to be a Christian. You don’t have to be a Jew in order to have a Passover seder and observe other Jewish rituals. However, once a Christian, this person is no longer a Jew, regardless of what the person’s status was at birth. She can call herself whatever she wants, but it doesn’t matter. According to Jewish law, she is not a Jew.
As to your other question about Schneerson-believing Jews. They are absolutely outside the community. They differ slightly in that they would not incorporate non-Jews into their sect.
Now what about someone born Jewish who does not believe in God? Are they also no longer considered Jews?
After 2000 years of doing that, we are DONE! Never again!
“Once you convert out, you are no longer a Jew”
Messianic Jews haven’t “converted out” as you say, rather they have only embraced and are following the Jewish Messiah that the Hebrew Prophets prophesied of.
This is a modern thought...If you read of the Jews who were believers in Jesus Christ in Ancient Israel, I believe they were referred to followers of the way.....The Disciples of Jesus worshipped in the temple, by all accounts they remained Jews in all what they did....The Jews did not even know how to bring gentiles into the fold of the Christ..Messiah of Israel...
Not one Jew who knew Jesus and believed he was the Promised Messiah of Israel said they were no longer Jews, neither did anyone else in Israel...
If Gentiles brought a Man to Israel and said this is the *Messiah* believe in him, and if they did, then I can see them no longer being *Jews*
It was the *Jews* that brought fourth another *Jew* to the Pagan Gentile Nations and said..
This is the *Lamb of GOD who takes away the Sins of the World*
and PRaise GOD that the Jews did! as we are grafted into the Family of the one true Living GOD!
When did that Jewish Law of Conversion take root?
What year in history did a :Law come about that said : If you are born a Jew, but adhere to the belief that the Hebrew Yeshua Ha-Mashiach is the Promised Messiah of Israel, you are no longer a Jew?
Is that a Biblical Law or man made law?
PapaBear3625 said: “So you’re saying that Hasidic Jews who decided that Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson was the Messiah, by that decision lost their status as Jews?”
They never said he was the Messiah.
The Talmud suggests that in every generation, there are potential righteous people who might have the ability to become prophets, or maybe the messiah. Lubavitchers do not believe that the Messiah arrived yet. A small group of followers of the late Grand Rebbe Schneerson thought he may have been on of these people. They have since backtracked. Watch a Chabad telethon and you’ll hear these same Jews speak of their hope the Messiah will arrive one day.
Judaism prohibits a belief in multiple gods, or Jesus as some savior figure.
“If you read of the Jews who were believers in Jesus Christ in Ancient Israel, I believe they were referred to followers of the way.....The Disciples of Jesus worshipped in the temple, by all accounts they remained Jews in all what they did...”
This is a good example of replacement theology.
Much as we chastise the Reverend Wright types for their Black LIberation Theology, this too runs into similar problems in that it slights actual history and a people known as Jews.
Why? Because you’re suggested Idolatry was accepted amongst Jews, and that the ancient Hebrews practiced Christianity. It’s a lie. No observant Jew would muddy this, as the prayers, and traditions are all clear. The Talmud is sparkling clear. A belief in Judaism negates Christian concepts.
TaraP: “What year in history did a :Law come about that said : If you are born a Jew, but adhere to the belief that the Hebrew Yeshua Ha-Mashiach is the Promised Messiah of Israel, you are no longer a Jew?”
That’s like asking where Jews rejected Muhammed. Jesus was merely a Rabbi in a marginalized reformist sect of Judaism. He wasn’t anyone that Talmudic scholars addressed. He’s not in the Torah.
To answer your question, laws of conversion require renouncing other gods, and false idols, and the tradition goes back to Abraham, and Sarah. The Talmud later addressed conversion in greater detail.
The issue isn’t conversion, it’s apostasy.
Also, what makes one an adherent of one religion, and not another? It’s not a title you can just throw around. As a religion goes, there are basic tenets that all denominations share as a belief system...and if you don’t share in those core beliefs, you are simply not of that religion. Judaism has many open ended areas open for differences and debate, but the issue of the Messiah is not one of them. Jesus is trivial for Jews, and always will be.
What are you talking about? A Messianic Christian Jew is every bit as much of a Jew as any Orthodox Rabbi. A perfected Jew. They are not trying to "pass themselves off" as anything other than what they are. Please show me this deception you speak of.
I am unaware of any Chritian missionary work in the entire world "meant to coerce people". Seems to me one has to be pretty insecure in their faith to feel need to prevent others from discussing theirs.
"Now what about someone born Jewish who does not believe in God? Are they also no longer considered Jews?"If one is born to a Jewish mother and is unobservant, they are an unobservant Jew, but still a Jew. If one openly converts to another faith, they are no longer a Jew. As simple as that.
"After 2000 years of doing that, we are DONE! Never again!"Just another reminder that a galut is still a galut. No amount of "christian zionism" or "ecumenism" or whatever is going to change that.
Jewish law is derived from the Torah and interpreted by the rabbis so that it can be put into practice. For instance, the rabbis instituted how we are supposed to fulfill “don’t seethe the kid in the milk of its mother”.
In my first post I told you when it became impossible to be both a Jew and a Christian. When Christianity was bringing in pagans who were not Jews, baptizing them and making them Christian. The religion broke from Jewish law and from being a religion on Jews. You don’t have to like it or agree with it. It is what Jewish law says on the subject. period.
An atheist Jew is simply a religiously lapsed Jew. I wish it weren’t so, because it seems wrong to me. It doesn’t matter if I like it or not or agree with it or not. That is Jewish law.
One’s essential Jewishness is retained forever.
A Jew who ‘converts’ to Christianity may forfeit some treatment as a Jew (such as being buried in a Jewish cemetery), but need not convert to Judaism should he return to Torah observance. If female, her children will be Jewish.
There’s a lot of confusion because Israel is a secular state but finds it politically advantageous to pay a certain amount of respect to traditional Jewish law. That does not mean the government of Israel obeys Jewish law. Quite the contrary.
JPS Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am YHvH.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
Mark 12:31 "The second is this,'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'[Lev.19:18]
The anti-missionaries do not seem to worship and obey YHvH.
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