How Many Will be Saved? (Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)

RealCatholicTV (PDF File) ^ | 5/20/11 | Michael Voris

[markomalley]

Then post something that us of concern only to Catholics.

I do not know what any of your previous posts said (I was asleep at the time). But I certainly don't comprehend how the sin of presumption (from which many liberal Catholics suffer) would be of concern to any non-Catholic. You may have assumed that this was a back-handed slam against non-Catholics; it was not. It was a slam against the universalism that, unfortunately, is taught in far too many Catholic parishes and the lack of the proper teaching of hell within those same parishes.

Most Catholics on FR would understand the context of Mr. Voris' video. Whether liberal Catholics go to hell is, in fact, not the concern of those who tend to believe all Catholics go to hell.

[sayuncledave]

I watched this last night. Very sobering. Mr. Voris is right. Narrow is the path, and we must keep that in mind. And pray.

[COBOL2Java]

Salvation, as soon as I saw the title of this thread, the first thing I thought was that there would be a LARGE number of deleted posts. It seems Catholic-bashers flock to these threads like bees to honey.

[Cronos]

how many will be shaved? Is this a barbers thread? ;-P

[verga]

Logically from looking at the Bible we see this. Sodom and Gomorrah had numerous inhabitant, yet only Lot and his family were saved (and even his own wife lost her salvation) Same with Noah and the Flood. Eight out of how many thousands were saved?

[annalex]

Interesting how the topic excites antagonistic posters.

Let me summarize, for non-Catholics:

We are saved by our works. I know that some communities of faith teach that we are saved by faith alone, but the Church and the Bible teach that while faith is certainly necessary, we are actually saved by our works:

[31] And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. [32] And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: [33] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. [34] Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. [35] For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:

[36] Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. [37] Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? [38] And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? [39] Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? [40] And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

[41] Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. [42] For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. [43] I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. [44] Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? [45] Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.

[46] And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.

(Matthew 25)

Observe: it is the behavior that separates the sheep from the goats, not faith itself. The behavior is self-denial. Not just any work, but what the Bible refers to as "good work": the work of denying self for another.

[7] In all things shew thyself an example of good works, in doctrine, in integrity, in gravity, [8] The sound word that can not be blamed: that he, who is on the contrary part, may be afraid, having no evil to say of us. [9] Exhort servants to be obedient to their masters, in all things pleasing, not gainsaying: [10] Not defrauding, but in all things shewing good fidelity, that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things:

[11] For the grace of God our Saviour hath appeared to all men; [12] Instructing us, that, denying ungodliness and worldly desires, we should live soberly, and justly, and godly in this world, [13] Looking for the blessed hope and coming of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ, [14] Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and might cleanse to himself a people acceptable, a pursuer of good works.

(Tutus 2)

This should not surprise us: Jesus gave us an example of His life, and His life was given for fellow men: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life".

The Holy Catholic Church teaches accordingly. A man of perfect Catohlic faith will not be saved by his faith alone, but rather by his good works. A man of imperfect and non-Catholic faith may be saved if his works imitate Christ. It is what you do in life that matters, not what you think:

[28] But what think you? A certain man had two sons; and coming to the first, he said: Son, go work today in my vineyard. [29] And he answering, said: I will not. But afterwards, being moved with repentance, he went. [30] And coming to the other, he said in like manner. And he answering, said: I go, Sir; and he went not.

[31] Which of the two did the father's will? They say to him: The first. Jesus saith to them: Amen I say to you, that the publicans and the harlots shall go into the kingdom of God before you.

(Matthew 21)

While it would be natural for a man-made religion to teach that only their flock will be saved, the Catholic Church has the true religion, and she does not teach that Catholics will be all saved and all others condemned. We teach that those who imitate Christ in their life will be saved and others condemned. It is the desire to imitate Christ that comes from faith:

if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him up from the dead, thou shalt be saved

(Romans 10:9, many similar).

This "belief of the heart" is expressed in the good work of self-denial.

And, while there are opinions of the matter of the proportion, the Church does not teach any definite number. The opinion expressed here is however, one most consistent with the scripture:

many are called, but few are chosen

(Matthew 22:14)

It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

(Mark 10:25)

[Religion Moderator]

When I instruct posters to leave a thread, do not invite them back by pinging them and asking them questions.

[Cronos]

my apologies — I did not see your rebuke.

[Mudflaps]

So difficult, but so simple at the same time.

From the Baltimore Catechism:

Q. Why did God make you?
A. God made me to know Him, to love Him, and to serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him for ever in heaven.

Q. What must we do to save our souls?
A. To save our souls, we must worship God by faith, hope, and charity; that is, we must believe in Him, hope in Him, and love Him with all our heart.

Many of us learned this by rote in first grade. Then, of course, we forget about it.

The priest brought this up during his homily yesterday. It's the simplest part of our faith, and it's the one that so few of us take seriously.

Our purpose here is not to "live a good life," not to "be happy," but to know God, love Him, and serve Him.

[SaintDismas]

I haven’t ever seen so many deleted posts, hmmm. Your prayer caught my eye because, as you and I both know well, that is PRAYER THE KEY TO SALVATION, simple as that!!!

I am reading a book by that title (Father Michael Mueller, C.Ss.R)and I am so happy to have found it, it boils it down to this: If you pray constantly, always have a prayer on your lips, then you have kept the Lord near. You don’t have to give into your fears and go into despair. Your soul will be saved because you are loving the Lord and seeking His will.

A relevant passage, pg. 25:

Oh, unhappy state of sinners! Whence shall such men obtain light to understand their misery? Whence shall they receive the good will, the courage and energy to free themselves from their evil habits? It is from God alone; He can grant these graces. “The heart of man,” says Holy Writ, “is in the hand of the Lord: He turns it whithersoever He wills. God can in one moment enlighten the sinner so that he understands the misery and danger of his state. The Lord can so move his will, that he makes a firm resolution to amend. He can in one moment inspire the heart of the sinner with so much confidence in His mercy that he firmly hopes for the forgiveness of all his sins.

But on what condition does God grant these all-important graces? He grants them only on condition that the sinner prays for them. The Lord is always ready to recieve the sinner again into His friendsip, provided he sincerely desires it. He has solemnly declared by the mouth of the prophet: “As I live, saith the Lord, I wish not for the death of the sinner, but that he be converted and live.” (Ezech. 33:11)

What gave me even more inspiration from this book is advice for what to do if you lack the desire to amend? Pray for that too!!! Ask and you shall receive folks!!! Pray, pray, pray, and then some, all day, every day. It doesn’t have to even be spoken, it’s your life. You know what your sins are, pray for the graces to CHANGE. You will be saved.

All of us, Catholic and Protestant should agree on these things, there’s really nothing to disagree about here. Unrepentant sinners make their bed in hell, and that’s not what the Lord wants.

[Salvation]

faith “plus” works

[frogjerk]

Good article and thread, what’s left of it!

[frogjerk]

Very sobering. With that:

Loving God,
Look upon me with mercy,
and help me to be reconciled to you.
I can do nothing if you do not help me.
Please let me see, and be sorry for all my sins.
I come, so that you can cleanse me.
Put Your Love in my soul,
so that I may love nothing but you.
Let this Confession bring a complete change in my life,
so that I may be fully joined to you.
Mary, Mother of God,
my Guardian Angel, and all the Saints,
help me make a good Confession.
Amen.

[TheGeezer]

So, the Son of God died in vain?

[piytar]

MANY are called, but FEW are chosen.

Yup. Couldn't be clearer, could it?

[piytar]

“The headline says it all. I am Damned. So be it.”

Do you believe in Christ? Do you TRY to live by His word, even knowing you’ll fail? Then you might not be.

And I might not be, knowing I’ve tried but failed.

Why? Grace.

But it’s not our call. We can but try.

PS Notice I didn’t say you had to be Catholic. I am - it’s my chosen route to Him. I don’t think that’s the real key. He is. JMHO, of course.

[annalex]

If He had not died, no one would have been saved.

[diamond6]

The picture you posted if one of my very favorite pictures of Our Lady and the Infant Jesus. Thanks for posting it!