Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Belteshazzar
FAR, huh? Care to expand on that?

I don't know where to start.
For one, Jesus never labeled himself a 'christian'.
His disciples never labeled themselves as 'christians'.
The first gathering of followers in Jerusalem after Jesus' execution were not 'christians' and never would have labeled themselves as such.
They were all jews, or proselytes.
Like I stated above, Jesus taught from Torah/Tanakh as did his followers and their immediate descendants. They did not bring a brand 'new testament', Jesus brought a renewed testament, just like the prophet Jeremiah describes.
Christianity & the 'christian church' (while later existing parallel to the assemblies in Jerusalem) was a development wholly separate from the disciples and what they taught from Jesus.
There was no "collaboration" between Jerusalem and Antioch, no melding, and no constant crossing of paths until the 4th & 5th centuries. In the 4th and 5th centuries Rome became the predominant religious power and all the descendant groups from Jerusalem and the original disciples (Nazoreans, Ebionites, Elcasaites, Mattheans, Johannites, etc) were labeled heretics, the evil Judaizers.
It did not matter they had direct lineage and providence back to Jesus and the original disciples.
Greek Gentile christianity has ruled ever since, utilizing Paul's Greek writings to obscure and misdirect Jesus' Words and his original teachings.

Before you label me batsht crazy and a cultist have you ever asked yourself how Jesus and his disciples and their immediate descendants got along teaching without any of Paul's writings? How did they originate the movement without any of Paul's writings? How did they continue the movement if they never had Paul's collected epistles?

It doesn't matter to most people, but it does to me. It matters a lot to me. It matters to me how the originals of the originals followed what Jesus taught and professed. When you stray from that you get crap like Mormonism and Scientology.
86 posted on 10/13/2011 10:24:05 PM PDT by brent13a (Freerepublic is a great sight for conservative news, if you can stomach the cop hating.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies ]


To: brent13a

Well, brent13a, your answer is very high on the passion index and very low on the verification index. Lots of assertions, no grounding of them in the extant sources.

Please realize that when you make such a sweeping statement as you did in the post to which I first responded, it should be backed up with some justification.
1) Jesus never labeled Himself a Christian.
OK, no argument. He didn’t. On the other hand, a Christian is by definition a follower of Christ. So ...
2) His disciples never labeled themselves as “christians.”
No, they didn’t. But did they profess themselves to be followers of Him who said He was “the way, the truth, and the life”? I think yes. So, if we label them followers of Christ, are we wrong? I think not.
3) Regarding the first gathering of Christians and what they would have labeled themselves.
First, see above. Then, no, they didn’t. But I don’t really think you can read their minds any better than I can. The bottom line is that they followed Him and professed Him. Show how that is wrong.
4) They were all jew or proselytes.
Yup. And then the followed the promised Messiah.
5) Jesus taught from the Torah/Tanakh.
Yup. And it testified of Him, and that all who would have life must come to Him, must be His followers. (John 5:39)
6) Christianity was wholly separate from Jesus’ disciples.
Well, brent13a, that assertion will take a bit of disproving. And I just don’t think you are up to it. But then no one else is either.
7) There was no collaboration between Jerusalem and Antioch.
I see. And the proof of that is?
What you say thereafter is a bit convoluted. So, I will refrain from responding.

Well, I did not label you “batsht crazy and a cultist.” You are the one who brought it up.

I will agree with you about Mormonism and Scientology, though perhaps for different reasons. And I would certainly choose different terminology to describe them.


89 posted on 10/13/2011 10:57:59 PM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 86 | View Replies ]

To: brent13a
Greek Gentile christianity has ruled ever since, utilizing Paul's Greek writings to obscure and misdirect Jesus' Words and his original teachings.

John 6:28-29 (niv)

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”


124 posted on 10/14/2011 5:03:45 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 86 | View Replies ]

To: brent13a
For one, Jesus never labeled himself a 'christian'. His disciples never labeled themselves as 'christians'.

Well, since he is the "Christ" in "Christian," I am not suprised that Jesus himself did not label himself that way, since a Christian is a follower of Christ.

As for the disciples:

Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

126 posted on 10/14/2011 5:46:55 AM PDT by alnick
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 86 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson