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Is Prodigal Son Church and Older Brother Israel?
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2015:11-32&version=KJV | marbren

Posted on 10/15/2011 9:30:31 AM PDT by marbren

Luke 15:11-32

(KJV)

11And he said, A certain man had two sons:

12And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.

13And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.

14And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.

15And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.

16And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.

17And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!

18I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,


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FreeRepublic is a great place to ask questions. This morning this concept came to me as I read this parable of the prodigal son. Until today I loved this for the teaching on God's Grace.

What if it has a dispensational message also?

I did a bit of research and found some who think the younger son is Israel and the older brother is the Church. What if it is the other way around? I do not know, Thank God, God knows.

1 posted on 10/15/2011 9:30:35 AM PDT by marbren
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To: marbren

No.

Primarily, the parable is about the generosity of God’s forgiveness. You can leave God, throw away His grace, and commit all kinds of sins. But even then, His conscience is within you, if you listen to it. And no matter how bad the sins, there is always a chance to repent, return, and find that God has forgiven you.

For Catholics, of course, this would involve the Sacrament of Confession. For Protestants, real sorrow for sins, repentance, and promise of amendment.

Of course, that doesn’t mean that the parable cannot have other meanings as well. In a literal sense, Judaism might be considered to be the elder brother. But the behavioral pattern of the two brothers argues the opposite. Judaism broke with God and went into exile, as it did earlier in Babylon. Not Christianity. So it is Judaism that will return at the end—and, of course, continues to be loved by God even in exile, as God continued to love the younger son of the parable in the midst of his sins, and wished for his repentance and return.


2 posted on 10/15/2011 9:40:08 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius.)
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To: marbren

The only thing that dispensationalism has brought into Christianity is confusion...


3 posted on 10/15/2011 9:53:42 AM PDT by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: Cicero
Thank You for your post. Grace was my primary focus until this morning. Have you ever heard of the church being the prodigal son and Israel the older brother?
4 posted on 10/15/2011 9:55:37 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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To: GourmetDan
The only thing that dispensationalism has brought into Christianity is confusion...

This is certainly a point of view.

5 posted on 10/15/2011 9:57:44 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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To: Cicero
"In a literal sense, Judaism might be considered to be the elder brother."

Was Abraham a Jew when he was saved by faith?

Faith is the older brother.

6 posted on 10/15/2011 9:58:40 AM PDT by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: marbren; GiovannaNicoletta

GiovannaNicoletta, any thoughts on my new speculation? :)


7 posted on 10/15/2011 9:59:11 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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To: GourmetDan

Everyone is saved by grace through faith.


8 posted on 10/15/2011 10:00:08 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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To: marbren

impossible premise, since the Church is Israel.

read Galatians 6:11-16.


9 posted on 10/15/2011 10:02:06 AM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: marbren

marbren wrote:
“Until today I loved this for the teaching on God’s Grace. What if ...”

Beware the dangerous ground on which you tread here.

The whole Bible, Old and New Testament, teaches God’s grace. That is its purpose. Why don’t you, instead of trying to analyze everything by means of an Israel/Church dialectic, analyze everything by means of the dialect the Bible itself lays out: sin/grace. A false dialectic will yield a false understanding.

Take the political world. When one analyzes everything using the Marxist dialectic, he strives to fashion a world that not only doesn’t exist, but cannot exist.

Man sinned, sins, and will sin. God calls man’s sin damnable, i.e., something that cannot and will not ever co-exist with Him, who is holy, righteous, perfect, and eternal. God, while not retracting His judgment of man in the least - not one jot or tittle of it! - in His grace provides a way of escape that man could never have imagined or accomplished. That way of escape is to send His only begotten Son into the world, to become man, and thus by His actively fulfilling all of God’s moral law in thought, word, and deed, and then taking upon Himself our sin and guilt in order to bear the full weight of God’s judgment against sin, remove the condemnation from us, provide true righteousness to us, and, so, bring us back into fellowship with God.

That is what is depicted in the parable, a parable spoken to the Jew first and then to the Greek, but ultimately to the whole world Jew and Greek (Gentile). None of us is a son by virtue of our birth, ethnicity, family connections, etc. We are sons through repentance and faith - the very thing depicted in the parable, faith in the One who alone has the right to remain in God’s house forever. The parable is simply the illustration of the truth of Hebrews 3.

The younger son is whoever recognizes his sin and counts as his only hope the goodness and grace of the father. That is point of the parable. That you should continue to love all the days of your life and not to be shaken from it, as it would appear you are.


10 posted on 10/15/2011 10:03:46 AM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
impossible premise, since the Church is Israel.

This thread is just speculation. I do not believe in replacement theology.

11 posted on 10/15/2011 10:04:26 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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To: Belteshazzar
The thought came to me this morning. I was looking for ideas. You do have an opinion. I can even speculate the rapture and 7 year tribulation in this parable. Have you ever heard of the church being the prodigal son and Israel being the older brother before my question? I do not know but, Thank God, God knows.
12 posted on 10/15/2011 10:09:36 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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To: marbren

And so is dispensationalism refuted...


13 posted on 10/15/2011 10:10:35 AM PDT by GourmetDan (Eccl 10:2 - The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.)
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To: marbren

I think the parable perfectly depicts all sinners who come to be saved. The sinner goes his own way, rolls around in this world’s pigpens of sin, yet He shows mercy and pours out His boundless grace on the undeserving sinner.


14 posted on 10/15/2011 10:11:24 AM PDT by .45 Long Colt
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To: .45 Long Colt

I agree we are all beggars for grace.


15 posted on 10/15/2011 10:18:03 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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To: marbren; Alamo-Girl
Hi Alamo-Girl, any thoughts on my new speculation question?
16 posted on 10/15/2011 10:22:22 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

Surely you jest. The Church is NOT Israel. Israel has its own future day of glory apart from the Gentile Bride. You might want to read some prophesy.....such as Zechariah, et al. Your name wouldn’t be Herbert W. Armstrong, by any chance?


17 posted on 10/15/2011 10:25:11 AM PDT by Tucker39
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To: marbren
Prodigal son = Church's Chicken

Older brother = Popeye's

Father = Colonel Sanders

18 posted on 10/15/2011 10:26:22 AM PDT by x
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To: marbren

The Church the Prodigal, Israel the Older Brother? Yes. I didn’t even realize it was controversial. Learned it that way in NT survey class at a Methodist college back in the ‘80s.

Not saying I agree with it, just that this is a pretty mainstream reading.


19 posted on 10/15/2011 10:30:19 AM PDT by I Shall Endure
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To: Tucker39
Surely you jest. The Church is NOT Israel.

I assume you understand that replacement theology heresy is part of mainline protestant, catholic and orthodox doctrine.

It probably started as speculation.

20 posted on 10/15/2011 10:33:19 AM PDT by marbren (I do not know but, Thank God, God knows)
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