Posted on 12/19/2011 9:39:11 PM PST by LouAvul
The church I belong to, some drink alcoholic beverages and some don't. It's apparantly one of those things that if you do, you just don't discuss it. Our former minister (he later told me) actually made his own wine. But he only told me that after he quit making his own wine.
Throughout the Patriarchal and Mosaical Ages God approved of alcohol consumption. He even recommended it (if you believe the Bible to be inspired). For example, Deuteronomy 14:26. Or, Proverbs 31:6.
The prohibition in the Old Testament is concerning drunkenness. (Cf Proverbs 23:29ff)
Jesus lived during the Mosaical Age, so it's logical to assume he drank alcoholic beverages. It was a perfectly natural thing.
In the New Testament, there is no condemnation of alcohol consumption. There is, however, condemnation of drunkenness. Again, anybody who has spent much time around drunks knows the difference.
Anyway, the reason I ask your opinion is because I always assumed it was condemned in the Bible. I think I may have been wrong. What do you think?
This is a great thread...I’ve often debated this topic. I’m in agreement with a lot of the others here in that consuming alcohol in moderation isn’t a sin, but drunkenness is. I had an easier time with this topic when I lived in the Northeast surrounded by Catholics, then when I moved to the south and was surrounded by Southern Baptists.
The hypocricy made me laugh. They condemned any use of alcohol whatsoever, regardless of context...but boy, you should see the gluttonous way they’d lay into church buffets...lol. Then there’s the rank idolatry of college basketball, but that’s another topic for another time.
I enjoy the company of my Lutheran and Presbyterian friends who aren’t so closed-minded to the issue.
Beer is God’s way of telling us he loves us.
...and wants us to be happy.
How can you tell a Baptist from a Catholic? The Catholic will wave at you in the liquor store.
Why do you take two Baptists fishing? If you take only one, he’ll drink all your beer.
:-)
Nothing wrong with liquor. Abusing it is the problem.
There are other words used ... For example ... Acts 2:13 uses γλευκους for "new wine" or "sweet wine" ... and 2:15 makes it clear it was not grape juice.
Jesus also used the phrase "fruit/produce of the vine" ... γεννηματος της αμπελου.
I suppose one could argue that there is nothing in the text of Jesus' statement in Matt 26 that demands fermentation; but Acts 2 seems clear.
Also, I recall notes from a lecture that mentioned the Jews DID have ways to prevent fermentation of grape juice.
Prior to the 19th century, there wasn’t such a thing as unfermented grape juice until Thomas Bramwell Welch invented a process for keeping it from fermenting into wine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grape_juice
You bet. They drank it immediately. Grape juice in a warm environment will start fermenting within a couple of days. Native yeasts cover the grapes as they are growing, and they stay during pressing. Even more are present in the air on the wind. No getting rid of them.
Same thing with cheese. Milk spoils. Cheese keeps for much longer.
Along the same lines: Why don't Baptists make love standing up? They are afraid someone will see them and think they are dancing.
Start here ... there are many others ...
http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/wine_in_the_bible/3.html
LOL GOOD ONE
“It is very important to not interpret the Bible as to add to Biblical law, to create additional laws of our own devices and present them as divinely inspired. It never works out well. Teaching elders have a duty to preach the true Gospel, all elders have the duty to use Church discipline in cases of heresy and the whole Church has a duty to stand against sin and testify to the Gospel.”
BUMP.
Well said. And I would add not only should we not add to Biblical law, we should not take away from it.
Alcohol leads to drunkenness...And who's to say when you're drunk???
I'm thinking when a person starts to get even a slight buzz, drunkenness has started...That's when you laugh a little easier...Look at things in a little different light than before you started the drinking...
Here's what God has to say about it...
Pro 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
Pro 23:29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
Pro 23:30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
Pro 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
Pro 23:32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
Pro 23:33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.
Pro 23:34 Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.
Pro 23:35 They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.
Alcohol won't send you to hell but God warns against drinking it...And one last thing...
1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
If someone sees you with a drink in your hand, how are they going to tell the difference between you and an unsaved drunk walking out of a bar???
Sure it would...Grape juice turns to vinegar before it turns to wine...
During these serious and troubled times, people of all faiths should remember
these four great religious truths:
1. Muslims do not recognize Jews as God’s Chosen People.
2. Jews do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah.
3.Protestants do not recognize the Pope as the leader of the Christian world.
4. Baptists do not recognize each other at the liquor store.
Pray for ‘em!
Oh good grief. Jesus served wine at the last supper. Jesus turned water to wine.
The issue is drunkenous not alcohol.
If it is an issue for you don’t drink. I for one will have a glass of wine with my dinner and thank God for the knowledge of wine making.
#4 Very funny. A Presbyterian friend of mine always says “when four of us are gathered there will be a fifth, sooner or later”.
Jesus turned water into wine. Does that sound like condemnation to you?
Until the advent of easily accessible, SAFE, potable water, alcoholic beverages were the only thing actually SAFE to drink. There are still a lot of countries where your only safe choices come out of a bottle.
Drunkeness is a bad behavior. Alcohol is simply a useful chemical.
God to my knowledge never condemned the consumption of Alcohol, in fact, Christ himself turned water into wine explicitely for consumption.. .shared wine at the last supper etc etc etc.
There is no explicite prohibition, particularly from Christ on the consumption of alcohol. Obviously being a drunk isn’t good for you, but alcoholic consumption was never condemned as immorral by Christ.
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