The mystery of 666 Explained - Nero! {Ecumenical thread}

ecclesia.org ^ | 2009 | Richard Anthony

[ravenwolf]

If Satan has been released for a spell, which period of 1,000 years was he bound (please show me 1,000 years without war on earth

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I don,t think rev says that.

[BereanBrain]

You might read rev 20:1-3

[Cronos]

Talk about reading in snippets, it is not I that does,

Grammar can be tricky I know, but comprehension even more so

Romans 3 says 20: Because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified before him. For by the law is the knowledge of sin. as well as
21. But now without the law the justice of God is made manifest, being witnessed by the law and the prophets -- Paul talks of ripping the Torah's laws such as circumcision, so hence your statement above about Paul teaching the Torah is wrong.

let's repeat your statement about Paul again -- I can not seem to find the verses in Scripture wherein Paul say not to keep Torah. Where Paul out right rejected circumcision. -- evidently whoever this "we" is, doesn't read Galatians 5:2-3
2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

And evidently this "we" doesn't read Corinthians either where Paul says Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. 1 Cor 7:18

So pretty evidently your statement about Paul (above) is incorrect, as is your other statement ON THE CONTRAIRE, WE DO READ FROM THE 1ST CENTURY WRITINGS -- unless Galatians and 1 Corinthians are not in what this "we" read.

[Cronos]

1,000 years without war on earth)

as I told you above -- people are eating better, living longer, living lives out of poverty and illiteracy and, EVEN spiritually speaking -- stop looking at it from the US-centric point of view and see how the Gospel is spreading in Africa and Asia

-- who says "peace and safety" means that the world is getting better? I pointed out how spiritually and materially the vast majority of people in the world are having their lot improved, not decayed. Peace and safety are nice, but not the most important stuff to have for spiritual growth

[Cronos]

As Augustine said -- a 1000 is 10 cubed -- an indication of an eternity. Satan is bound by Christ's actions -- Christ who is ruling NOW

BereanBrain, YOU need to read Apocalypse 20:1-3

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

NOWHERE does it say 1,000 years without war on earth

[Boogieman]

You’re correct that much of Revelation is centered on Jerusalem, however it wasn’t all accomplished in 70 AD. Jerusalem still stands, not even every stone from the old city has been torn down yet. The heavenly Jerusalem is still in heaven, not on Earth. The mountain hasn’t been cleaved to make wave for the faithful to depart the city and take refuge. The two witnesses haven’t laid dead in the street for three and a half years. Etc, etc, etc.

Just saying “it was all done in 70 AD” doesn’t make it so.

[patlin]

Romans 3 says 20: Because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified before him

1st of all, one can not take a “snippet” without 1st understanding the context of what is being said. Paul starts Romans 3 off by saying: 1 What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? 2 Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? 4 Certainly not!

Justification is NOT the same thing as blessing. All the apostles knew the difference between justification and faith which is love. Paul then ends Romans 3 with this:

31 Do we then nullify the Torah through the belief? Let it not be! On the contrary, we establish the Torah

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

We are not to separate Messiah from His Father and we are not to separate the Father's children from His Word and the ONLY Word they had during the time of Messiah was the Torah, God's instructions for life in His house and He said that they are not burdensome for it is through them that ALL blessing comes.

Gal 3:13 Messiah redeemed us from the curse(penalty of death) of the Torah, having become a curse for us 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the nations in Messiah Yeshua

Corinthians is about the works of the Talmud(oral law), not the works of the Torah of God. It is about boastful religious men adding notches to their belts so they can go around boasting saying that “So & so was baptized or circumcised in that boastful religious person's name." Period.

When one accepts Messiah and starts learning Torah, it is the “Spirit” in their hearts that does the works, not the flesh or the carnal mind because those things were put to death so to speak so that the “Spirit” would now be the one guiding all ones actions. That is what it means to “Let His Light shine before the world”. I get it, it's just too bad the doctrine of Christendom rejected it. Messiah did not come to start a new church, he came only for the lost sheep of Israel. Can pagan gentiles enter into covenant? Of course it called grafting in aka adoption. One doesn't adopt a child and then let them live as they wish disregarding the house rules. A loving Father instructs, guides and disciplines in love.

And thus the problem with the world today, unruly children who disregard authority, starting in home where parents have conceded and thereby giving their authority over to the children, all inthe name of greasy grace. And hence all the different doctrines of Christendom, all the children doing as they please rather than what pleases the Father.

Does the Father want all his male children to be circumcised? Yes. Is it required for salvation? NO But it is required in order to gain the blessings that come from it.

Greasy grace is a nasty slimy thing that is the works of the devil, not of God.

[Cronos]

I guess we'll just have to disagree.

It was done in 70 AD as Revelation tells us right at the beginning 3Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

4John to the seven churches which are in Asia:

The time AT HAND -- John is not teasing those Churches in Anatolia who are being persecuted, this book is about the THEN.

the 7 churches are all concentrated in Ionia, what is now western Turkey

Revelation 6 talks of the famine with war -- which is how the Roman siege of Jerusalem happened.

Then in Revelation 7 we read of trumpets bringing death and pestilence

And FIRE -- the Greek weapon

The ROman armies used siege engines to launch flaming arrows, darts, even dead bodies (to cause plague and pestilence) -- hail and fire mingled with blood

Chapter 11 has And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which is mystically called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified -- this was Jerusalem

[Cronos]

remember, YOU said I can not seem to find the verses in Scripture wherein Paul say not to keep Torah. Where Paul out right rejected circumcision.

I'm sorry you have not read Galations 5:2-4
2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

And 1 Cor 7:18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised --> so Paul is saying not to follow the Torah's teaching on circumcision, hence your statement is incorrect.

[bmwcyle]

This is complete bull crap.

[patlin]

As I said, Paul rejected circumcision as a requirement for salvation. He did not reject the Torah instruction for Yah’s children in order that they may gain the blessing that comes from obedience. That is for them personally to make. It is between they & YHVH, what ever YHVH prods their heart to do. FYI...Cutting off Paul's words in order to make it look like Torah is done away with is the work of the adversary.

1Co 7:19 The circumcision is naught, and the uncircumcision is naught, but the guarding of the commands of Elohim does matter! [Footnote: 1Rom. 2:26-29] 20 Let each one remain in the same calling in which he was called

Rom 2:26 So, if an uncircumcised one watches over the righteousnesses of the Torah, shall not his uncircumcision be reckoned as circumcision?
27 And the uncircumcised by nature, who perfects the Torah, shall judge you who notwithstanding letter and circumcision are a transgressor of the Torah!

[patlin]

Rom 2:26 So, if an uncircumcised one watches over the righteousnesses of the Torah, shall not his uncircumcision be reckoned as circumcision?
27 And the uncircumcised by nature, who perfects the Torah, shall judge you who notwithstanding letter and circumcision are a transgressor of the Torah!
28 For he is not a Yehudite who is so outwardly, neither is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29 But a Yehudite is he who is so inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in Spirit, not literally, whose praise is not from men but from Elohim. [Footnote: 1 Cor. 7:19, Ex. 19:5, Dt. 10:12-16, Dt. 30:6-10]

Deu 10:12 “And now, Yisra'l, what is יהוה your Elohim asking of you, but to fear יהוה your Elohim, to walk in all His ways and to love Him, and to serve יהוה your Elohim with all your heart and with all your being,
13 to guard the commands of יהוה and His laws which I command you today for your good?
14 “See, the heavens and the heaven of heavens belong to יהוה your Elohim, also the earth with all that is in it.
15 “יהוה delighted only in your fathers, to love them. And He chose their seed after them, you above all peoples, as it is today.
16 “And you shall circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and harden your neck no more.

Deu 30:6 “And יהוה your Elohim shall circumcise your heart and the heart of your seed, to love יהוה your Elohim with all your heart and with all your being, so that you might live,
7 and יהוה your Elohim shall put all these curses on your enemies and on those who hate you, who persecuted you.
8 “And you shall turn back and obey the voice of יהוה and do all His commands which I command you today.
9 “And יהוה your Elohim shall make you have excess in all the work of your hand, in the fruit of your body, and in the fruit of your livestock, and in the fruit of your ground for good. For יהוה turns back to rejoice over you for good as He rejoiced over your fathers,
10 if you obey the voice of יהוה your Elohim, to guard His commands and His laws which are written in this Book of the Torah, if you turn back to יהוה your Elohim with all your heart and with all your being.

What? Circumcision of the heart is nothing new? What? Paul telling us that we are Jews because we have received circumcision of the heart and the church teaches that Torah is ONLY for the Jews? I'll be interested to see how you reconcile this one.

[Cronos]

Nope, you said Paul did not reject circumcision. When, in fact Paul did —> go read Galatians...

[patlin]

Nope, you said Paul did not reject circumcision. When, in fact Paul did —> go read Galatians...

What I said was Paul rejected circumcision as a requirement for salvation, but I know twisting ones words is not uncommon for those who claim Messiah came to establish a new church

The mystery of 666 Explained - Nero! {Ecumenical thread}
Thursday, December 22, 2011 6:18:31 PM · 25 of 213
patlin to Cronos
Paul rejected the Rabbinic oral law(Talmud) that said circumcision of the flesh was required for salvation, period.

The mystery of 666 Explained - Nero! {Ecumenical thread}
Friday, December 23, 2011 3:44:09 PM · 155 of 213
patlin to Cronos
Paul is not saying anything new, justification is not by works but it is works that bring the blessing of the covenant

The mystery of 666 Explained - Nero! {Ecumenical thread}
Monday, December 26, 2011 1:24:18 AM · 196 of 213
patlin to Cronos
Circumcision...it is not about salvation, it is about blessing that comes from obedience for according to Paul, obedience IS righteousness and we are all to run the race of righteousness for if the works are of the heart, the works are not of us but of the Spirit that resides in our hearts

The mystery of 666 Explained - Nero! {Ecumenical thread}
Tuesday, December 27, 2011 10:42:27 AM · 207 of 213
patlin to Cronos
Justification is NOT the same thing as blessing. All the apostles knew the difference between justification and faith which is love

IOW, what Paul was telling the people at Galatia & Corinth was not to fall back under the bondage of the Talmud(oral law) that requires circumcision of the flesh in order to receive salvation. Torah does not & NEVER HAS REQUIRED circumcision of the flesh for salvation. That is an invention of man. PERIOD!

[Cronos]

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