Posted on 01/14/2012 8:23:15 PM PST by bibletruth
In the present dispensation there is only ONE true Church, which is called the Body of Christ separate and distinct from the prophesied, earthly kingdom of Christ vested in redeemed National Israel as a called-out nation or church, assembly or congregation, above all other nations.
After I got done talking to him I decided to add Jesus, Peter, and the Keys by Butler Dahlgren and Hess. This one shows all of the well known prot that understand the absolute equality of petra and petros. Of course that would require them to engage in intellectual rigor instead of blind obedience to Pastor Bob of the school of no theological training.
Yet again, I have a differing opinion on this subject. Do have a feeling that this conversation is going in circles? I do.
And after all we know how highly Jesus spoke of those well educated Pharisees.
>> “the two words were interchangeable.” <<
.
Oh, I get it!
The authors of the gospels were showing off their vast and versatile knowledge of the language and used two interchangeable words in the same sentence, just to show off.
Rrrright.
Does the Pope know you talk like that? My, what a fine upstanding representative of the Catholic church you are.
That's YOUR and the Catholic Church's interpretation. The CORRECT interpretation is that Jesus was speaking about the TRUTH, which Peter spoke, as being the rock.
I take much solace in the fact that religion is a man-made thing. As such, Christ didn't make a 'religion' ...
The authors of the gospels were showing off their vast and versatile knowledge of the language and used two interchangeable words in the same sentence, just to show off.
Rrrright.
You are showing complete ignorance of how Koine works.
If you don't believe me look up the Baptist minister John Broadus from 1886. He wrote in his "Commentary of Matthew, Valley Forge PA Judson Press pg 355" that any distinction was limited to poetry.
On page 356 he demonstrates that the rabbinical language of that time did not draw a distinction between the two words.
In John Calvin's New Testament Commentaries The Harmonies of the Gospels Matthew Mark, and Luke Vol. 2 Translated by T.H.L. Parker wrote " I grant that in Greek Peter(Peteros) and stone (Petra) mean the same thing, save that the first word is Attic[From the Attica region}, the second from the common tongue.
James B. Shelton associate professor in the School of Theology and Missions of Oral Roberts University in Tulsa OK In his Letters to Authors, October 21, 1994 said almost the exact same thing.
Get yourself a copy of Jesus, Peter, and the Keys, by Butler Dahlgren and Hess. and you will see many more quotes from noted Protestant scholars saying the exact same thing.
I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump. I ran over and said: "Stop. Don't do it."
"Why shouldn't I?" he asked.
"Well, there's so much to live for!"
"Like what?"
"Are you religious?"
He said, "Yes."
I said, "Me too. Are you Christian or Buddhist?"
"Christian."
"Me too. Are you Catholic or Protestant?"
"Protestant."
"Me too. Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"
"Baptist."
"Wow. Me too. Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?"
"Baptist Church of God."
"Me too. Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?"
"Reformed Baptist Church of God."
"Me too. Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915?"
He said: "Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915."
I said: "Die, heretic scum," and pushed him off.
If you would be so kind, please show where I vigourously defended (not defied) Stepanak. I merely said that he ministered to his congregation.
Show me where he blessed the murder of nearly a million Christians.
If you would be so kind, please show where I vigourously defended (not defied) Stepanak. I merely said that he ministered to his congregation.
Show me where he blessed the murder of nearly a million Christians.
RSV Mat 16:18-19 “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.” will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
KJV Mat 16:18-19 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Who is I? Jesus (God), Peter is pretty self explanatory, Peter is the Rock the Church will be built on. Again you are more than free to interrupt this very simple statement as you will. The Keys are a sign of Authority Started with Peter and have been handed down over time. There is one Church, The head of that Church is Jesus, his earthly representative is the Pope, Only one can have the authority because when thousands have the Authority then there are a 1000 different God’s and we both know this is not true and is also why there are over 40,000~80,000 different Christian denominations registered now. That was not Gods intent, One Church was his intent and what the Scriptures reveal.
Posted twice, I should have checked the TO: line.... Oops Sorry
RSV Mat 16:18-19 “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.” will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
KJV Mat 16:18-19 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Who is I? Jesus (God), Peter is pretty self explanatory, Peter is the Rock the Church will be built on. Again you are more than free to interrupt this very simple statement as you will. The Keys are a sign of Authority Started with Peter and have been handed down over time. There is one Church, The head of that Church is Jesus, his earthly representative is the Pope, Only one can have the authority because when thousands have the Authority then there are a 1000 different God’s and we both know this is not true and is also why there are over 40,000~80,000 different Christian denominations registered now. That was not Gods intent, One Church was his intent and what the Scriptures reveal.
When I say Authority I do mean it on defining Morals and Faith, IE. Moral Standards and Meaning of Faith to include scriptures when he (The Pope) prays, studies and listens to the Holy Spirit, which is the only time Infallibility will happen. This is my faith it also makes much more sense than everyone having Infallibility on their own, sort of like original sin where man thinks he does not need God and can do it better without him. But hey if you think you have the ability of Infallibility go for it. I will place my Faith in the Lords words and wishes.
>> “On page 356 he demonstrates that the rabbinical language of that time did not draw a distinction between the two words.” <<
.
truly absurd as an argument why anyone would use both to say the same thing in the same sentence.
You are grasping at straws.
God bless you too, John. I love debating scripture when people stay respectful to each other. And I’m open minded enough to admit that on some things I could have the wrong interpretation and welcome other views.
You are grasping at straws.
I guess you are going to have to take it up with Broadus, Calvin, and Shelton, since they agree with the Catholic understanding.
Now I just supplied you with references and cited the sources correctly. Please look them up and verify the accuracy of my quotes.
I realize that it really skews your world view to realize that three very learned men agree with the Catholic Church about something, and right now it is really gnawing at you wondering what else we might be right about.
I merely said that he ministered to his congregation.
Nice dodge.
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