Posted on 01/15/2012 10:10:29 PM PST by bibletruth
— Can’t Catholics do something or make any decisions without someone doing the thinking for them?—
8-) Well, you could look at it that way.
Or you could say that our final authority is Christ’s Church (as Jesus prescribes), and your final authority is Scripture (a doctrine which is neither prescribed by Jesus nor Scripture).
Ironically, if you reject the infallible teaching authority of the Church, then you throw the trustworthiness of Scripture into doubt, since the Church wrote, canonized, and preserved sacred Scripture. R.C. Sproul followed the logic, concluding that the Bible is a “fallible collection of infallible books.” (?)
—Scripture is the authority—
To be logically coherent, shouldn’t Luther’s doctrine appear in Scripture?
And how do you justify ignoring Jesus’ clear command to take disagreements “to the church?”
—Which Church? The Orthodox? The Roman Catholic Church? —
One Church has as an unbroken line of successors to St. Peter. The other Church hasn’t called a Council since the Schism.
Nevertheless, before I completely alienate our Orthodox brethren, there is very little difference in Catholic/Orthodox teaching. Catholics recognize the validity of Orthodox sacraments. In fact, Catholics can meet their Sunday obligation by attending Mass at an Orthodox church, subject to the Orthodox priest’s permission.
Luther’s doctrine of Solar Scriptural has not resulted in Christian unity, but more importantly, his doctrine isn’t Scriptural.
As far as Luther goes, I believe we started this conversation with stating how close the Catholics and Lutherans viewed things. Apparently they're not that close. I would add that Sola Scriptural is far more scriptural then the Catholic current view on the atonement (it's been changed), indulgents, or Mary as Co-Redemptix.
The Holy Spirit.
So the Catholic Ephesians 2:8 could read:
8 For by grace the Holy Spirit you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
and the evangelical version:
8 For by grace the generosity of God you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
I can’t speak to the accuracy of the translation of this verse, but yes, the Catholic definition of grace is the “Life of God” or the “Holy Spirit” in the soul (specifically, “sanctifying grace.” Actual grace is different.)
The fundamental, conceptual, Catholic, doctrinal distinction is that God changes us intrinsically, making us truly holy.
The “imputation” doctrine is extrinsic. God overlooks our intrinsic sinfulness, “covering” our sins by Christ’s atoning sacrifice.
If my understanding is correct, this doctrine contradicts God’s nature as Truth and Justice.
Moreover, this doctrine contradicts scripture, which tells us that no sinner can enter heaven.
Finally, the fact that grace is “the Life of God” or the Holy Spirit in our souls, does not preclude the gratuitousness of grace and salvation.
So how do Catholics receive grace? Is it through the Eucharist?
—So how do Catholics receive grace? Is it through the Eucharist?—
Normatively, through all of the Sacraments. A distinction can be drawn between Baptism and Penance, which confer initial sanctifying grace, and the others that increase sanctifying grace within us.
Also, we believe that God is not bound by the Sacraments, and may dispense His grace as He sees fit. But Catholics can be certain of receiving grace through the sacraments, as long as we are properly disposed.
We also believe that non-Catholics may receive sanctifying grace:
The Catholic Encyclopedia (1913)
“The Catholic Church has ever taught that nothing else is needed to obtain justification than an act of perfect charity and of contrition. Whoever, under the impulse of actual grace, elicits these acts receives immediately the gift of sanctifying grace, and is numbered among the children of God. Should he die in these dispositions, he will assuredly attain heaven.”
Also, “Jesus Christ by His passion and death gave to the sacraments the power of conferring grace.”
Ref. Catechism of Pope St. Pius X
So infant baptism confers initial sanctifying grace? Does this mean that infants who are baptized receive the holy spirit and are saved?
If no one who has sin enters heaven, where do you all go when you die? Is that what purgatory is for?
Is this correct?: Baptism and/or confession/penance gets you a ticket to purgatory. To get to heaven you need to increase your quantity of grace through the sacraments, that is mainly the Eucharist and confession/penance, until you are perfect.
Is this where the 'saints' come from? Are they the only ones who got to skip purgatory?
I know you mean well brother but it was Saul, not Samuel who did all that stuff.
But what result do we find here after prayer for the dead to help Saul: the LORD delivered Israel into the hand of the Philistines - total failure for Samuel!
Nope, "total failure" for Saul, not Samuel.
You seem to have your narrative a little confused.
There was no "dead woman" in the scenario either. The necromancer of Endor was very much alive. She conjured up the spirit of Samuel, who was dead and she did it at Saul's request.
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