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Childish behavior |
Posted on 02/14/2012 4:00:49 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
And when Saul saw the host of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart greatly trembled. And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets. Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.(I Samuel 28:5-7)
I have no problem believing that God sovereignly granted revival in the 1960′s -70′s, renewing faith in the reality of Jesus, introducing church people to Jesus for the first time, and baptizing multitudes from all walks of life, and over the spectrum of denominations in the Holy Ghost. The movement became known as the Charismatic renewal.
Why not? Didn’t He promise us that …
… it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:(Acts 2:17-18)
I myself came to Christ at the end of the 1970′s, in a charismatic church. But the critical question of any movement is not one of the beginning, but of the end…how does it end?
Of course in one sense the Charismatic movement never ends, for it didn’t begin in the 1960′s nor at Azusa street, but in Jerusalem. It shall never end, being established by Jesus, clothed in the Holy Spirit and known as the church.
But the charismatic movement as a historical reality, that sovereign move of God of 40 years ago,which turned so many to Jesus and the Spirit in a godless day, has been co-opted by it’s “leaders” and seems to be going the way of King Saul.
Saul seriously disobeyed God at several key points in his life, doing what he “felt” was right, rather than adhering to the Word of God. He wouldn’t go by the Word, but by “feelings”. God called that rebellion and even “witchcraft”,
And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.(I Samuel 15:22-23)
One of the problems with the Charismatic movement, was that it was beset with a variety of false teachers. Oral Roberts, with his seed faith, prosperity teaching. New Thought influenced teachers such as Kenneth Hagin and Copeland, who taught that we are all “little gods”, and could create our own reality by our words.
Who can forget the “deliverance movement” which was basically superstitious hysteria, but brought millions into bondage? How about the attempt by some to bring about order, imposing the cultic and oppressive “shepherding movement”?
False teaching imposes a terrible toll, it breaks down the defenses and corrupts the soul. Doctrine, good or bad, is not insignificant, it is of critical importance.
The Prophetic movement heralded by the false Kansas City Prophets and John Wimber, promoted experience over doctrine, and induced millions into “spiritual drunkenness” and gnostic mysticism.
These are just a sampling of the influences which flooded into the wake of millions of people coming to a living faith in Jesus and an awareness of the Holy Spirit. Like an accumulation of toxins in a body they have had an eroding effect on the church.
Time fails me to go into the other excesses such as the unbiblical ecumenism, the Toronto and Pensacola movements, neo apostles and prophets, and spiritual warfare.
The common theme of all of these excesses is that the charismatics have always been strongly urged not to judge! Discernment has been ridiculed and criticized! These things have taken a toll.
The charismatic movement is in danger of ending like Saul…
At the end of Saul’s life, he went into the occult. God wasn’t speaking to him anymore. Samuel was by now dead, although Saul consistently ignored him whilst alive. Saul had chased David away. killed the priests and found himself in real trouble.
And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.
He who had once purged the land of witches and wizards, now sought out a witch, that he might commune with the now dead Samuel!
Benny Hinn is just one Charismatic leader who has testified of his own necromancy,(communication with the dead). He tells os his frequent visits to Kathryn Kuhlman’s tomb, to get an impartation of “her anointing”!
“One of the strangest experiences I had a few years ago [was] visiting Aimee’s tomb in California. This Thursday I’m on TBN. Friday I am gonna go and visit Kathryn Kuhlman’s tomb. It’s close by Aimee’s in Forest Lawn Cemetery. I’ve been there once already and every so often I like to go and pay my respects ‘cause this great woman of God has touched my life. And that grave, uh, where she’s buried is closed, they built walls around it. You can’t get in without a key and I’m one of the very few people who can get in. But I’ll never forget when I saw Aimee’s tomb. It’s incredibly dramatic. She was such a lady that her tomb has seven-foot angels bowing on each side of her tomb with a gold chain around it. As—as incredible as it is that someone would die with angels bowing on each side of her grave, I felt a terrific anointing when I was there. I actually, I—I, hear this, I trembled when I visited Aimee’s tomb. I was shaking all over. God’s power came all over me. … I believe the anointing has lingered over Aimee’s body. I know this may be shocking to you. … And I’m going to take David [Palmquist] and Kent [Mattox] and Sheryl [Palmquist] this week. They’re gonna come with me. You—you—you gonna feel the anointing at Aimee’s tomb. It’s incredible. And Kathryn’s. It’s amazing. I’ve heard of people healed when they visited that tomb. They were totally healed by God’s power. You say, ‘What a crazy thing.’ Brother, there’s things we’ll never understand. Are you all hearing me?”11Benny Hinn sermon, Double Portion Anointing, Part #3, Orlando Christian Center, Orlando, Fla., April 7, 1991. From the series, Holy Ghost Invasion. TV#309, tape on file.
Familiarity with the Word of God would deliver Hinn’s followers, for God says He hates the sin of necromancy. Isaiah tells us that those who seek anything from the dead have no light in them,
When someone tells you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living? Consult God’s instruction and the testimony of warning. If anyone does not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn(Isaiah 8:9-12)
The flavor of the day in Charismatic circles is Bethel church in Redding California, headed by a Word Faith, Prophetic movement, pastor , Bill Johnson. At His Bethel School of ministry, he teaches students to “honor the Generals of revival”, that is leaders such as Smith Wigglesworth, Aimee Semple Mcpherson, Evan Roberts, and others.
“Honoring” them to Johnson means compiling a vast collection of their books and artifacts,and opening a “generals library” for charismatics to visit. But like Hinn, Johnson also believes in visiting their tombs, and literally “soaking” the “anointing” by being in the presence of their graves.
Bethel Students “Soaking Anointing” Off of Tombs !
Those who discern are seeing countless other evidences that like Saul, the Charismatic movement has gone into the occult, for false prophecy, dream interpretation, necromancy,spiritual drunkenness are all characteristics, not of christian spirituality but “the delusion”, a revival of deceiving spirits that Paul warned about, as a consequence of rejection of the Word of God.
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.( 2 Thess 2:8-12)
And it's quite another to understand God's Word, God's will, and God's plan. The truth stands or falls on comparing Scripture with Scripture and dispensations with dispensations.
Where did I say anything about not having enough faith? I've said we ALL have the same measure of faith - it's a gift! Where are you getting prayer cloths from? Going on a rant?
Do it. I'll give you a thread you can go to right now. Show us your faith in action.
Guess what - YOU do not command me EVER and that is my faith in action! You will have to live with that as you go around whining/complaining and acting like big boss man. Actually, I think it's funny. If you used humility, I wouldn't have anything to chuckle about. 'So count it as all joy" - or is that only for the Jews, also?
Of course, I could go on but what it boils down to REALLY is they just can't tolerate it when someone doesn't see things the same way as they do. ESPECIALLY when it is something they insist they have experienced. Somehow, experience trumps God's word. It "must" be from God, because "I experienced it and how could I experience something if God's hand wasn't in it?!" This thread is going on almost 1000 posts and it has not progressed or advanced from how it first was challenged BY THE SAME PEOPLE!
The problem is NOT that nobody is being heard, the problem is those who are convinced by their experiences refuse to allow others to hold to beliefs ABOUT those experiences that differ from their own. It really is as simple as that! It started out being about the "sign gifts" and their purpose and whether or not the purpose for those gifts has passed, that they have ceased and been removed by God and, if they were stopped, what is going on today with those who demand that they were NOT EVER stopped - though they must admit they are not the same. Perhaps we may not know the ultimate answer until we meet the Lord face to face. I have an idea, though, that that will be the farthest thing from our minds and we will finally put aside our differences and rejoice in the presence of Jesus forever.
...that’s what I thought...
YOUR time will be better spent meditating on HIS WORD. Sorry to disappoint you but you won't gleeful watch unswerving faith in action unless you use the mirror.
Imagine that - a Christian waiting to see someone unswerving in faith - such a godly thought that is NOT!! Where would that come from? Thanks for showing what you are made of - and how you DON'T WALK the TALK!
PRAISE GOD FOR HIS WORD and that HE IS THE LORD THAT HEALS ME!
I gave you want you KNOW you deserve; so, of course, you thought it.
You’ve already discredited yourself. And NOW you’re ranting. You are too late to advise. You have no advice to heed. EPIC FAIL.
I gave you WHAT you KNOW you deserve; so, of course, you thought it.
You are right as I answered you.
And NOW you’re ranting.
I answer the rant with a rant as that's all you understand.
You are too late to advise. You have no advice to heed. EPIC FAIL.
LOL!! YOU are trying to advise me? LOL!!!! You certainly are the funny one along with an unteachable spirit.
You are right as I answered you.
And NOW you’re ranting.
I answer the rant with a rant as that's all you understand.
You are too late to advise. You have no advice to heed. EPIC FAIL.
LOL!! YOU are trying to advise me? LOL!!!! You certainly are the funny one along with an unteachable spirit.
WOW. A DOUBLE RANT POST. lol! You seem somewhat knotted up. Careful. It could lead to an ulcer. Which would have to be prayed for by a divine healer. Which may or may not be a charlatan...
Or we can make it easier and you can tell a FReeper right to her face, here and now, that she's not healed because she doesn't have enough faith. That if she did, she'd be able to eat anything she wanted without any reaction of any kind.
I'll be waiting but not holding my breath.
Talking about an "unteachable spirit":
PNSN: You are not qualified to teach me God's Word - so don't try. Not one bit of meditation goes into understanding of His Word as your posts show.
Immaturity = thin skinned.
Just who is it that is "puffed up" and immature here? Here is a test for you: Right this very minute, what are you feeling? Anger or peace? It's not sounding like peace.
How nice of you to show up, AGAIN, and waiting for an ulcer. Always waiting for something evil to happen so you can rejoice in it! You are a riot as you expose yourself.
You remind me of...when Jesus went to eat in the house of a prominent Pharisee, he was being carefully watched.
I posted doing things of importance and gave LESS attention to the least important - and that's where you came in. So you can cease your giddy dance.
And what's this about a divine healer? I have the Spirit within, I don't need another! You really need to get a grip, you keep trying and failing.
I'd say it's time for you to go back and play in the mud. And get another handful and sling it around - that's your expertise.
LAUGHING!!!
In anger or from a peaceful heart? Or, likely, in derision?
Go back to the one who told you that or get over it and count it all joy. Pick the easier one. we can make it easier
What’s it to you? LOL!! Are YOU trying to search my heart? LOL!!!
Are you peeking around corners or over fences and seeing what some are up to and drawing your own conclusions? That’s the picture I have of you - nosy neighbor.
I think it’s more like wailing and gnashing. Because poor pnsn’s hand was called. And she had nothin’. All that talk, and nothing. Striking out at others because she failed at what she so brazenly and continually bragged about. For 1000 posts, that’s all we heard. Too bad, pnsn, you gotta know when to hold ‘em and know when to fold ‘em. And know when to walk away. And STUDY the Word of Truth instead of FEELING the “spirit” in your bosom.
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