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Perhaps you have misjudged your correspondents on this thread?

As far as I know, none of us are anti-science. And to whatever extent we are anti-scientIST, we direct our indignation towards individual scientists who have been promoting their own political or ideological agenda under the color of science. Chief among these are the Eugenicists (the topic of this thread) and such "scientists" as Dawkins, Pinker, Singer and Lewontin.

In my view, mainstream scientists ought to be just as indignant about such abuses as we are. Science should be about gaining knowledge not political/ideological power.

Also, any person who believes in The Creator of "all that there is" is a Creationist - as YHAOS has tried to explain. Within that belief there are many different understandings of God's revelations both in Scripture and in nature.

There are fewer than 40 sentences in Genesis 1 versus myriad research material in libraries around the world concerning the physical world around us. We Creationists have many ways of viewing the one in the light of the other.

We are not all "Young Earth Creationists."

I for instance consider myself both YEC and OEC. There may be not a single other Christian on this forum who agrees with me. And that does not matter.

My views are much closer to those of Jewish Physicist Gerald Schroeder though obviously I would not agree with him on everything. He is Jewish, I am Christian.

Nevertheless, like Dr. Schroeder, I keep Relativity and Inflationary Theory in mind while reading Genesis.

For instance, here we are rocketing through space at over 500,000 miles per hour and yet we cannot sense it. Neither can we sense relativistic time - that a week from our present space/time coordinates is equal to an equivalent 15 billion years from the inception space/time coordinates. Nor can we sense the proportion of cosmos to quantum.

In our view, there is no conflict whatsoever between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 - or between Scripture and the physical evidence we see in nature.

Further, I perceive Genesis describing the creation of both spiritual and physical, heaven and earth - from God's perspective not man's. The Creator was the only observer of Creation.

And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. - Genesis 2:9

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. - Revelation 2:7

And again,

These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and [there was] not a man to till the ground. – Genesis 2:4-5

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. - Hebrews 11:3

In other words, I see the perspective of Scripture changing from inception to Adam at the bottom of Genesis 4 when Adam is banished to mortality. Man is appointed 7,000 years, a week. Approximately 6,000 years have elapsed since then (Jewish calendar) and the last 1,000 will be Christ's millennial reign on earth, the Sabbath.

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. – Genesis 2:17

And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died. – Genesis 5:5

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. – 2 Peter 3:8

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ. - Colossians 2:16-17

Except for some early Christians (e.g. Epistle of Barnabas, Enoch) - I may stand alone in the belief that man is appointed 7,000 years with the last 1,000 being Christ's reign on earth.

But it doesn't matter to me at all if no one here agrees with my understanding of the matter. Even so, I am a Creationist. And I am not anti-science.

God's Name is I AM.

I for instance consider myself both YEC and OEC. There may be not a single other Christian on this forum who agrees with me. And that does not matter.

My views are much closer to those of Jewish Physicist Gerald Schroeder though obviously I would not agree with him on everything. He is Jewish, I am Christian.

Nevertheless, like Dr. Schroeder, I keep Relativity and Inflationary Theory in mind while reading Genesis.

Imagine that, a creationist who understands relativity. Sounds like my family with two girls who are physics majors.

But it doesn't matter to me at all if no one here agrees with my understanding of the matter. Even so, I am a Creationist. And I am not anti-science.

Ditto.....

The label of *anti-science* is just a pejorative used to discredit one's opponents. I see tactics like that as indicating the person lobbing the accusation has nothing of substance in his (or her) arsenal.

Just as when Godwin can be invoked, chalk it up as a win.

[ I for instance consider myself both Y{oung}EC and O[ld}EC. There may be not a single other Christian on this forum who agrees with me. And that does not matter. ]

Interesting insight.. whos to know.. which..

The earth could be billions of years old with life in the millions.. and mankind in the thousands..

-OR-

The whole shooting match could be in the thousands..

-OR-

Humans could have been around for millions..

I ask myself WHY does it really matter?..
What good does it do me to know either..
Except as entertainment.. or bragging rights to appear smarter..
BUT I could get my livelihood from being some sort of “expert” on one of the options..

The reasons for “believing” one or the other of these (and more) options.. could be endless..
I have to agree with you.. both are possible.. maybe even probable...

I would like to believe humans are the result of God giving the EVIL ANGELS a second chance.. giving the prodigal son metaphorical story new life.. Making us all evil SOB’s.. with some choosing to NOT REBEL against God “this time”..

Otherwise why did God make humans in the first place?..
Adding “Satan” to the pot was pure genius..
When I look at humans there are indeed some evil SOB’s out there..

I could go on but why bore everbody?...

“We are not all "Young Earth Creationists."”

Thank you, Alamo-Girl for the ping and for expressing your endorsement of at least some of my views.

It’s true, I think, that in attempting to fold 14 Billion years (or 7 Billion years, or 3.5 Billion years, or whatever it may be) into ten thousand years (or six thousand years), those Christians who have chosen to identify themselves with a YEC scientific explanation of God’s creation, have selected a very steep and high mountain to surmount, but I wish them every success for I understand that their theories about the duration of God’s creation is secondary to the knowledge of the salvation of Christ and of God’s love (and that He is The Creator), these being understandings we all share, and it may be that Alamo-girl’s forays into Relativity and Inflationary Theory might serve as their answer. As always in science, theories are subject to further discovery (or so I am told).

And exDemMom, please forgive me for disagreeing, but in your schooling of metmom on the meaning of Philosophy, I believe you commit a fundamental error in equating the gathering of information (the primary task of Science) with wisdom. Wisdom is so very much more than that.

Alamo-Girl to exDemMom: Perhaps you have misjudged your correspondents on this thread?

Spirited: It is not so much a case of misjudging as it is of a freely made choice to accept one set of conceptions (i.e., Godless evolutionism, something from nothing) rather than another, special creation ex nihil-—God IS.

Tragically, America increasingly resembles the now dead Marxist Communist Soviet Union.

Though Marxist Communism billed itself as scientific and of course evolutionary it was in fact attempting to “scientifically” annihilate the Christian conception of man made in the spiritual image of the Triune God and replace that with a Buddhist conception of a collective unconscious, a quiet type of pantheism.

Central to this attempt is absolute mind control. This being the case, scientifically-engineered New Soviet Man is no longer an individual soul/spirit with a mind of its’ own but rather a part of the collective unconscious for whom the Party (Orwell’s Big Brother) is the One-Mind.

Natan Sharansky, a dissident in the former Marxist-Communist Soviet Union refused to “lose” his individual soul/spirit and was as a result accused of non-conformist thought. Sharansky describes the Soviet Union as a spiritual tyranny where,

“there were no dissidents (because) they were simply killed immediately.”

As a result of psychological and physical terror-tactics-—inversion of meaning, propaganda of the lie, re-education, hate crime laws, speech codes, and other mind-control tactics, everyone became double thinkers.

To outside observers notes Sharansky, double thinkers appear as true believers:

“everybody says the same thing, everybody votes the same way, everybody speaks with passion.”

But it is an illusion caused by fear of speaking the truth. These people, he noted,

“live with self-censorship throughout their lives. Since the regime demands loyalty right from childhood, many don’t even notice. They just automatically control how they express themselves.”

But when a “fear society disappears or becomes weak, people suddenly start saying what they feel,” Sharansky commented, and “It’s such a big relief.”

To determine if a society is fear-based, Sharansky applies what he defines as the “town square test.” In this test, if you,

“can go to the center of town (i.e.,Free Republic) and publicly express your views without being punished (by FR’s thought-police), you have a free society” even though that society may not be just.

However, if you are “punished for your views you live in a fear society,”said Sharansky.

“In such societies there are always three types of population:

True believers, who accept the ideology...dissidents, who take risks to speak publicly; and double thinkers, who have doubts or disagreements about the official ideology but are afraid to express them publicly.”

In conclusion, Sharansky notes that the level “of dissidence is always a function of how tough the regime is.” (The Power of Freedom, published in The American Enterprise, Apr/May 2005, pp. 38-39)

Measured by Sharanskys’ town-square test we can see that America has been descending into a fear-based society for over eighty years. Already we can see the three types of population.

1. Those “who take risks to speak publicly” exemplified by Free Republics ‘truth warriors”

2. those “who have doubts or disagreements about the ideology but are afraid to express them publicly.”

3. true-believers who serve as “gate-keepers” and/or thought police. It is their job to publicly shame, rebuke, and ridicule all who dare to speak truth to lies.

In this light we can see all three types right here in FR.

There is one other group of people-—Big Brother, also known as the West’s Progressive ‘elites.’ The real evil comes from within this group.

simultaneously replaced by green-progressive totalitarianism, the three types of population described by Sharansky come into focus. In general, Progressive Liberals are the true believers. Rabid zealots, brazen liars, rebels against all authority, they freely destroy, transgress, scoff, demean, blaspheme, demonize, and otherwise psychologically terrorize the large body of fearful double thinkers.