Should a Pastor Continue in Ministry If His Child Proves to Be an Unbeliever?

Christian Post ^ | 03/17/2012 | John Piper

[SeekAndFind]

The following is an edited transcript of the audio.

Should a pastor continue in ministry if one of his sons, arriving at a mature age, proves to be an unbeliever?

Well, as you know, that hits close to home. So maybe the best thing I can do is tell you the way the elders at Bethlehem managed this, because that's me.

When that happened, I went to the elders and I said to them, "Here's the situation. I think my son needs to be pursued by the elders as far as you can, and then he needs to be excommunicated if he doesn't respond." He was 19 years old.

And so for I forget how many months they did this. Maybe six months or so. And I said, "I am willing to step back and go on a leave of absence, or resign, or whatever you think appropriate in this situation." They never faced this before with any theological thoroughness.

So for those months they were pursuing him, talking with him. He was working for one of the elders at the time, and they had some conversations. And we were studying the issue, because it says in Titus 1:5-6 that the children of elders should be pista (faithful). Tekna is the neuter word for "children" in Greek, and pista agrees with it. So it is "faithful children."

Now if you just absolutize that as "they must be believers" then not only would I have had to resign, but every pastor would have to resign until his children become believers. (I'm giving you one of the arguments against it. Children become believers, they're not born believers-unless you have a very unusual view of baptism as an infant baptizer.)

So the idea would be that you can't be a pastor until they become believers-say, nobody with children under six should be a pastor. Or another take would be that if they profess faith and then walk away from it you have to leave the pastorate.

Well the elders studied that through and they wrote a paper. It was just a two page thing that said that a pastor shouldn't resign on account of an unbelieving adult child. [Editor's note: This paper isn't available, but you can read another similar one by Justin Taylor.]

And so they let me press on, but we did follow through with the discipline. And God was merciful to, I believe, use that letting go to awaken and restore. And I'm thankful for it.

So I don't think the point of those stipulations in 1 Timothy and Titus is to lead to the quick resignations of pastors, but to discern whether a man has a maturity and a giftedness to lead a well-ordered family. That's what it's for.

How can you manage the flock if you can't manage your household? And good management doesn't mean perfect outcome. It didn't for God, and it doesn't for us.

[johngrace]

There is something very wrong here.

All I can say is an old saying from a priest. Father Payton.

A family that prays together stays together!

If this Reverend prayed continually with his family from babe to teenager years. Christ takes care of the rest. I know a family two doors down from growing up. They always prayed together. What a devout faith . I ate over at times. The father would not only say thanks for dinner but would have everyone of his kids and guests say specific thanks in our lives. What we were grateful for to Christ. That made me think as a kid with things deep down inside. It never leaves you.

It is these little daily prayers that add up to a mature faith in Christ.

[right way right]

No, I was not clear. I was refering to the amount of people you talk to, not just pounding verbally on one person.

Nuff said.

Your statement about the “gift” is true.

[trebb]

"Here's the situation. I think my son needs to be pursued by the elders as far as you can, and then he needs to be excommunicated if he doesn't respond."

I have a problem with the statement - Jesus' answer to why he hung around with the low lifes was that the sick needed the doctor, not the well. I can see keeping a non-believer from taking an official position in the Church, or even refusing communion (although I don't see a valid reason for it), but allowing him to be surrounded by believes gives him a much better chance of deciding to be saved. Some of the most effective evangalists I've herad started out as atheists and became true believers by learning more as they set out to prove God didn't exist.

[Ge0ffrey]

Ex-communicated? Do you mean “banished” from the community? If so, good grief that’s harsh. Because ex-communicated in the Catholic Church means not being able to take Holy Communion. Is that what you mean?

Here, from Wikipedia: Excommunicated Catholics are still Catholics and remain bound by obligations such as attending Mass, even though they are barred from receiving the Eucharist and from taking an active part in the liturgy (reading, bringing the offerings, etc.). However, their communion with the Church is considered gravely impaired. In spite of that, they are urged to retain a relationship with the Church, as the goal is to encourage them to repent and return to active participation in its life.

[Patton@Bastogne]

my apologies if i sounded harsh ...

[Patton@Bastogne]

“Copy that, Houston !”

[E. Pluribus Unum]

This is an anti-Mormon post, isn't it?

You need to hold your fire until Myth is actually the nominee.

[luckystarmom]

My old pastor’s daughter is not a Christian. She was adopted as an infant. She was homeschooled, but for college, she went to Berkeley. While there, she made it a mission to meet her birth parents.

She made a strong connection with her birth father, and he was not religious.

It’s been really hard on my old pastor’s wife.

[yefragetuwrabrumuy]

It is notorious that the children of clergy are problematic, likely for many and manifold reasons. Many turn out okay, or even accomplished. Some, like Frederick Nietzsche, Malcolm X, Kim Il-sung, Cesare and Lucrezia Borgia, less so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_children_of_clergy

[uptoolate]

Henry's commentary on the passage in regards to the children:

"And, as to his children, having faithful children, obedient and good, brought up in the true Christian faith, and living according to it, at least as far as the endeavours of the parents can avail. It is for the honour of ministers that their children be faithful and pious, and such as become their religion."

1Ti 3:4 He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity 1Ti 3:5 (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?),

So I believe the rule is whether or not the child has been elected by God, is God's choice. But the Pastor's responsibility is to raise obedient children, 5th command, and to actively petition the Lord to show mercy on his children and elect them if it be His will. Just as one would expect a Pastor to do so for those who sit under his care.

[right way right]

No ploblem.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

I read this also and think it’s a bit absurd. The “child” is an adult. One of the most oft told Biblical tales is of the prodigal son.

We, I am including any person of faith regardless of denomination, have all lost hope and faith at some point. It may come over disaster, personal misfortune, death, disease or any other obstacle known to man since time began. However brief, fleeting or long lasting people of faith have questioned their faith; even Mother Teresa.

The need for people to question their faith or have it questioned by others is the entire basis of original sin. I would dare say those who question whether a man can keep another man, or in this case son, faithful by their standards are acting in a fashion that only God Himself is capable of judging.

Faith in God is like water flowing, we frequently follow the path of least resistance. I have more faith that a misbegotten soul will find his way around an obstacle of faith the way water eventually finds its way around a large rock in a stream than a man coercing him to do so or else.

[freedomfiter2]

What the passages from Timothy and Titus is that our system is broken and we should generally be selecting pastors from the mature,godly men of the congregation instead of looking at professional pastors fresh out of Bible school.

[madison10]

Brothers. Not cousins. They are listed by name—one of those listed being Joseph (named after his father). Mary’s other kids. They didn’t believe because, well, would YOU believe your older brother was the Son of God? They thought Jesus was nutty.

[Cicero]

I suppose it depends on whether you think there is such a thing as free will. Catholics believe that no one can be saved without God’s GRACE, but that we are free to accept or reject that grace. Calvinists believe that we are saved or damned entirely by God’s will, and nothing we do can change that.

The child of a good family is far more likely to turn out good than the child of a rotten family. Nevertheless, you cannot force anyone to be good. It’s always possible for a child, well brought up, to turn away when he comes of age.

Less likely, certainly, but always possible.

In Deuteronomy, God offers His Covenenant to the chosen people. He tells them that “This day I have set before two paths: life and death. Choose life.” But they always have the option to choose to turn away.

As the Archangel says in “Paradise Lost”, “Freely we serve, / Because we freely love, as in our will / To serve or not.” True love involves the free choice of the one who loves—not forced conformity, which is not love but slavery, as Augustine points out.

[Nifster]

If everyone must come to Christ on their own then WHY should a pastor resign because offspring lives in unbelief??? That makes NO sense. A pastor should be well versed in the Bible and should be able to teach the flock. Other than that I see NOTHING in New or Old Testament to suggest that one cannot be a good pastor just because one’s offspring exercises free will

[reaganaut]

If everyone must come to Christ on their own then WHY should a pastor resign because offspring lives in unbelief??? That makes NO sense.

- - - - -
I completely agree with you. Read my post again. The “Yes, he should” was in response to the question “Should he continue in ministry” that is the title of the thread. I was not stating he should resign.

[reaganaut]

No, he shouldn’t continue in ministry? Why not? (read the question asked in the thread title).

[Nifster]

I got overly enthusiastic... I know you and I were saying the same thing. Sometimes I get on a roll and I just look darned silly.

[reaganaut]

If your a Christian, and have not had someone who you hold dear reject Jesus Christ, than you probably have not talked enough to those you hold dear about him.

- - - -
Oh that is just plain silly. All the talking and preaching won’t necessarily make someone ‘get it’.

I grew up in a Christian family, going to church, I knew all the stories, read the Bible, etc, etc...and I ended up joining a cult (Mormonism) because I never really ‘got it’. I heard a lot about it, I thought I was a Christian, but I was ‘churched’, I never really accepted Christ or ‘got it’. I didn’t know that at the time however.

So, enter Mormonism, it was actually through my experiences in Mormonism and my loss of faith in it, that I realized what Christianity really was, how I needed a Savior personally and I gave my life to Christ and truly believed in him. It took me being Mormon for me to actually get being a Christian (and no Mormons are not ever Christians, it isn’t possible).

So, it is ridiculous to blame the pastor for his son not being a Christian and just as ridiculous to think that the father didn’t talk about Jesus enough with his son.