Scientific, Scriptural evidence points to authenticity of image of Jesus on Shroud of Turin

theBeacon ^ | 03.22.12 | Michael Wojcik

[Coleus]

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[GreyFriar]

Thank you for the post. More proof of the Shroud’s authencity

[Excellence]

In 1981 or 82 I went to a presentation at the Jeffersonian campus of, I think, U of C. There was a replica of the shroud, and all the evidence they had so far. The most intriguing aspect was the researcher’s ability to form a three-dimentional mold of the head. They used pieces of cardboard to form the general shape. Then they filled in the rest like someone would work from a skull. The “worst” part of the exhibit was the “autopsy.” How anyone could have lived through that for the three hours He was hanged on the cross is beyond belief. It was a sobering experience.
The really bad mistake I made, though, was allowing a genuinely Irish priest drive my car home. I swear he never drove under 70 m.p.h.

[zot]

Thank you for the ping. I became convinced that the Shroud is genuine when I learned that the Carbon-14 test was done on a rewoven patch and not the original material.

[brent13a]

This pipedream with the Shroud will never convince a non-believer no matter how much evidence is put in front of them. Therefore this need to "prove" it real seems to be a mission for proof for those who claim to be faithful but require physical things to validate their so-called faith.

I never understood the need to prove such a thing was real or fake. I guess I'm lucky in that my faith doesn't require physical things to be validated. I don't need a piece of cloth, a mummified heart, a bejeweled skull, or any other subsitutionary idols to know and profess my faith in G-d.

[GreyFriar]

I think I’ve always thought it is authentic. Or decided it was so long ago, I don’t remember having doubted its authencity. And Veronica’s veil has no unknown period of existence to cast doubt on it.

[Future Snake Eater]

This pipedream with the Shroud will never convince a non-believer no matter how much evidence is put in front of them.

Why is it a "pipedream" and how is it supposed to convince anyone? People saw Jesus perform miracles right in front of them and didn't believe.

[butterdezillion]

Sounds like this guy believes that the image on the shroud could be a miracle. I wonder why he thinks that being Jewish means he can’t believe that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah. Does he think the miracle of the image’s creation was done by either nature or by the devil?

[mountainbunny]

I’m with you and do not believe and have never believed that the Shroud of Turin is the shroud of Jesus.

I do not need physical proof to know that God and his Son exist, are real, and are our salvation.

[brent13a]

People saw Jesus perform miracles right in front of them and didn't believe.

And?
Did the witnesses who did believe then bow down to those who were healed? Did the wedding party worship the wine that had been changed? I know of nowhere in Tanakh or Jesus' words that tells me I need to worry about physical items nor bow down to them no matter what they are or where they came from.
The act of the miracle itself and the power of that miracle coming from G-d is what should be revered, not the object or byproduct of the miracle.

[GreyFriar]

Brent, I believe you are confusing that believing an artifact is real IS the reason for my and other’s belief in Jesus, rather than it is our belief in Jesus and His gift of our salvation from Him. Metaforically, you are putting the cart in front of the horse that is pulling the wagon and the cart attached to the wagon.

Non-believers will never believe that the shroud is authentic, because they have no belief in Jesus and His message, and some don’t even believe He existed.

The Shroud’s authenticity does not cause my belief in Jesus, it is my belief in him and of His ressurrection, that allows me to believe in the Shroud being His burial cloth.

[Coleus]

I do not need physical proof to know that God and his Son exist, are real, and are our salvation. >>

nor do most Christians, it’s called faith...

[brent13a]

Does he think the miracle of the image’s creation was done by either nature or by the devil?

The act of the miracle itself and the power of that miracle coming from G-d is what should be revered, not the object or byproduct of the miracle.

[Future Snake Eater]

It’s simply a validation of the faith, nothing more. A physical, forensically verifiable item that comes as close to definitive proof as you can get without HD video of the event.

Anyone who worships the Shroud is a fool who needs to go back to the Bible. The Shroud could be burned tomorrow, and it would be a significant historical loss, but it wouldn’t affect Christianity in any way. Not like the effect that destroying Mecca and Medina would have on Islam.

[plain talk]

This pipedream with the Shroud will never convince a non-believer no matter how much evidence is put in front of them. Therefore this need to "prove" it real seems to be a mission for proof for those who claim to be faithful but require physical things to validate their so-called faith. I never understood the need to prove such a thing was real or fake. I guess I'm lucky in that my faith doesn't require physical things to be validated. I don't need a piece of cloth, a mummified heart, a bejeweled skull, or any other subsitutionary idols to know and profess my faith in G-d.

Why use the term "G-d"? Is there something wrong with the word "God"? Yes - believers don't need a shroud or physical evidence to sustain their beliefs. But the shroud is quite a mystery and the fact scientists still can't quite figure it out makes the continued study quite logical and ... fascinating. Even Spock would approve.

[butterdezillion]

True. The object itself is just the stuff of earth but the miracle itself is the stuff of Heaven. The real treasure is the One who did it.

But doesn’t it seem weird that the Lord would do a miracle to preserve the historical record of a blasphemer?

[butterdezillion]

Brent will probably respond, but Jews don’t spell out the word for the Lord’s name out of respect for the 1st commandment to not take the name of the Lord in vain. It is a way of honoring the name of the Lord.

And Brent, I’m using Lord because I’ve been told that it is not offensive to Jews. Let me know if that’s not the case. I’m constantly disappointed with the way the word “G-d” is thrown about as if it meant nothing.

[plain talk]

Brent will probably respond, but Jews don’t spell out the word for the Lord’s name out of respect for the 1st commandment to not take the name of the Lord in vain. It is a way of honoring the name of the Lord. And Brent, I’m using Lord because I’ve been told that it is not offensive to Jews. Let me know if that’s not the case. I’m constantly disappointed with the way the word “G-d” is thrown about as if it meant nothing.

Ok. Hmmm. I honestly did not know the word "God" was offensive to Jews. Thanks.

[JeanLM]

I saw the shroud in 1978 myself. I went with my more religous boss and stood with him in a line that was a street wide and miles long. It took 2 hours at least to get in.

I have to say I went in a skeptic and came out saying it could be true. Details of the crucufixion, that none of the later counterfeiters could have known, were shown in a display after the viewing.

It was a truly gruesome way to die. And no it doesn’t have to be real to give you faith, but it was very moving, including the thousands who stood next to us for so long.