Skip to comments.Judge Should go to Jail, Not Pastor Who Taught Discipline of Children!
Posted on 06/02/2012 7:46:09 PM PDT by John Leland 1789
Recently a Wisconsin judge seriously overreached her authority when she sentenced Philip Caminite, pastor of Aleitheia Bible Church to two years in prison for teaching his flock to discipline their children! Such illegal judicial actions are one reason many of us think many judges rank alongside used car salesmen, and I dont mean to insult used car salesmen by the comparison. I suggest that Judge Maryann Sumi might improve her status by selling cars, not sending preachers to prison.
The pastor is to be supervised for six years after serving his time and is forbidden to have any contact with his church and to have no leadership in any church. So we have a court stomping on the constitutional rights of a preacher and telling him where he can go to church and forbidding him to follow his calling of preaching. I wonder if Maryann has ever read the First Amendment. If this case stands, it will be a Damocles sword hanging over the head of every preacher, priest, and rabbi in the nation. In fact, every church leader should preach on this subject next Sunday, and end with No judge or any other official will tell me what to preach. Never, never, never. Assistant District Attorney Shelly Rusch wanted the preacher to be sentenced to five years in prison and 15 years of extended supervision, calling him "the spoke in the wheel of this conspiracy." Shelly is as confused or radical as Maryann since the pastor was teaching what true preachers have taught for centuries. Sorry dear, not a conspiracy. Shelly should be back in her kitchen baking cookies. The judged said that the sentence, in part, was intended to send a message that child abuse will not be tolerated and to prevent Caminiti from once again teaching members of his church to spank their children with wooden objects to cure them of selfishness. The judge is not thinking or is skewed in her thinking since teaching people to discipline their children is not child abuse. In fact, I have always taught that parents who refuse to reasonably discipline their children (involving spanking for rebellion and disobedience) are child abusers!
Recent studies in the U.S. and Sweden prove that sparing the rod does spoil the child. Sweet little Johnny, without discipline, will become Big Bad John. Another study published in the Akron Law Review a couple years ago examined criminal records and found that children raised without spanking are much more likely to be involved in crime. Many anti-spanking experts have seen the light while the Wisconsin judge, prosecutor and the jury are still stumbling in the darkness.
The next time I have a speaking engagement in Wisconsin I will be sure to instruct my listeners to properly discipline their children. Maryann and Shelly are invited to attend and sit in the amen corner. They may even hit the sawdust trail. The preacher was not guilty of abusing a child; he was sent to prison for teaching parents to discipline their children! Since when does a judge, any judge, on any court have the authority to tell a preacher what he can teach? The judge is an idiot or a radical ideologue. Maryann whined that the preacher showed no indications of being remorseful or repentant, but then he should not be since he was teaching the truth. Maryann refused the preacher the courtesy of being free during the appeal, a privilege that is often given the most heinous criminals. Many judges think their rulings from the bench can make something just when it is unjust! It may be legal but it is not just. Many judges stand in front of a mirror awed with themselves in their black sheets indicating they have a messianic complex. They seem to be waiting for a vacancy in the Trinity! It is common for them to think they can walk on water, maybe explaining why so many judges are all wet.
I am convinced the real child abusers are incompetent, intolerant, and insensitive judges who send parents to jail and place well-adjusted children in state homes that are often rampant with sodomy, drugs, violence, etc. Of course, the state homes are licensed! There is no doubt that some judges are child abusers.
Prosecuting attorneys, determined to cut another notch on their guns, callously prosecute preachers and parents without regard to what is best for the children and, therefore, are child abusers.
Judges, police officers, and prosecutors along with the other child abusersshould go to jail! Yes, I know that jails are a bad environment filled with killers, rapists, drug dealers, child molesters, the scum of the earth, but I dont think the judges, prosecuting attorneys, and zealous social workers will corrupt the inmates much further!
Pastors had better come out of the closet! March on the Bastille! Mount the barricades. Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition; the ammunition being courage, commitment, conscience, and convictions. Your children and freedom to preach Gods message are in the balance!
Lets kick officials out of office who abuse the rights of Christian leaders, and bring them before the bar of justice for their attacks on church and home leadership. In my opinion, the preacher should have told the judge she was out of order and her ruling would be totally ignored and she could hear him preach next Sunday at the Aleitheia Bible Church. Of course, he would go to jail immediately for contempt; but then, of course, he would be guilty of contempt of court, even though totally justified.
Surely he will be set free when his case comes before sensible people and he should sue the prosecutor, the judge, and the county for religious discrimination, kidnapping, interference with Christian worship, and anything else that can be thrown in.
Moreover, this is a perfect example that cries for jury nullification, but then, thats another day.
Copyright 2012, Don Boys, Ph.D.
(Dr. Don Boys is a former member of the Indiana House of Representatives, author of 14 books, frequent guest on television and radio talk shows, and wrote columns for USA Today for 8 years. Three years ago, the second edition of ISLAM: America's Trojan Horse! was published, and his new eBook, The God Haters is available for $9.99 from www.thegodhaters.com. These columns go to newspapers, magazines, television, and radio stations. His other web sites are www.cstnews.com and www.Muslimfact.com. Contact Don for an interview or talk show.)
“A Black Earth pastor was found guilty Wednesday of eight counts of conspiracy to commit child abuse for advocating the use of wooden rods to spank children as young as two months.
A Dane County jury took only about two hours to find Philip Caminiti, 54, pastor of the Aleitheia Bible Church, guilty of having instructed members of his flock to punish children as young as infants and toddlers by striking them on the bare buttocks with wood dowels in order to teach them to behave correctly, fitting the church’s literal interpretation of the Bible.”
This is an obscene reading of the vibe. People like this try and use the ‘spare the rod and spoil the child’ argument. The problem is that they do not understand the meaning of the words. The rod is the rod of justice which every ruler held in their hand as an indication of their position not a beating tool. The admonish is to teach your children well to train them in the Lord’s ways...NOT to beat them into submission. That type of submission is found in things like Sharia law not the Bible.
The bigger problem is that so many ‘churches’ have folks leading them with NO knowledge of the original languages or history of the area. They miss much because they are ignorant and refuse to learn
This blog suffers from the same ignorance
You do not understand what ‘the rod’ is. The rod is a symbol of leadership and judgement-— of wisdom. You can see the rod in the hands of pharaohs. Perhaps you should go back to the original languages and learn some before making such ignorant comments
Actually, the word for rod is the same as frond, as in palm frond. While the spare the rod....etc. quote is not ‘’Biblical’’, the sentiment is.
Now, you may be familiar with the adage that you attract better with honey than vinegar. Try it sometime and save your judgemental BS for someone who might care. In other words, if you wish to actually influence me, instead of puffing your chest out and trying act superior, try it without the arrogance. Otherwise, muck off, jake.
Change a couple letters in that original language and you’ll get an idea of what I really meant to type.
Got it, genius?
Oh sure I get it... you too prove the adage that you attract better with honey than vinegar. You spent your time accusing me of doing exactly what you did in your post. And I do not need to find some cutsie way to avoid foul language,
Now do you have it genius
Yes, what he said was sick but not illegal to express your opinion of what the Bible says. He is very wrong and ignorant of child development.
But he still has a right to his belief and shouldn’t be put in prison for it. It would be another thing if he was actually beating a child but here we are getting into a slippery slope. My parents took a strap to my brothers and would have been put in jail with today’s insane intrusion into raising children.
My brothers deserved it and turned out to be wonderful, productive, responsible people with no children out of wedlock. They were never abused—just swatted and it did them good. (like the Bible says). They were never spanked until they were four or older though.
Oh, grow up.
You don’t like my OP, send freepmail. You want to make a show of your doctor of divinity knowledge, post it. Just do it without the ‘’I know what IS and you are ignorant’’ crap. You get slammed in return, don’t cry about it. Just move on.
Maybe, if mummsy and pappy had not spared the rod when you were growing up.....
Now, get the funkychicken outta my face, Nipsy.
AFAIK not all PhD’s took creative writing & literature. Oh I had boss a Ph.D. (in microbiology & immulogy) boss who is worse in writing...
Wisconsin have been charged with using wooden rods to spank infants as young as 2 months old for "being emotional, grumpy or crying," the Dane County Sheriff's office said.
The Aleitheia Church, in the town of Black Earth, was started in 2006 with a donation in the range of $500,000-$600,000 from Bob and Lori Wick of nearby Mazomanie, according to a news release from the sheriff's office.
Lori Wick is the author of almost three dozen historical Christian novels with more than five million books in print, according to her Amazon profile. Reached by AOL News today by telephone at their home, Bob Wick said they "have no comment" on the case.
Publicists at Lori Wick's publisher, Harvest House Publishers, did not immediately respond to emails from AOL News today for comment.
Philip Caminiti, left, the pastor of Aleitheia Bible Church in Black Earth, Wis., and his brother, John Caminiti, 45, have been charged with a dozen counts of child abuse for allegedly using wooden rods to punish children. The investigation into the Aleitheia Bible Church began last November, when former members contacted authorities with concerns about how children were being treated, according to the sheriff's office.
Six church members pleaded innocent to charges of child abuse during an appearance Thursday in Dane County Circuit Court. They were booked and released.
Pastor Philip Caminiti, 53, and his brother, John Caminiti, 45, were charged with a dozen counts of child abuse last week and also pleaded innocent.
The victims included 12 children ranging in age from infancy to 6 years old, according to the sheriff's office.
"During interviews with detectives, Phil expressed his belief that the Bible dictates the use of a rod over a hand to punish children. He stated that children only a few months old are 'worthy' of the rod and that by 'one and a half months,' a child is old enough to be spanked," according to the sheriff's office release.
"Throughout the investigation, the church members were open with detectives about their 'Spare the rod, spoil the child' philosophy. They described using wooden dowels and wooden spoons on the bare skin of children, starting as young as 2 months old," the sheriff's office said.
"If you spank early and it is done right, then kids will be happy and obedient," Philip Caminiti said, according to the criminal complaint.
According to the sheriff's office, the dowels were described as being 12-18 inches long with a diameter about the size of a quarter. The parents told detectives that "redness and bruising" were the "common effects of the spankings."
"One person described the children being emotional, grumpy or crying as behaviors that would constitute a spanking with a dowel," according to the sheriff's office.
Three sets of parents are among the six others charged, including two of Philip Caminiti's children and their spouses: Matthew Caminiti, 27, and his wife, Alina, 24; and Maria J. Stephenson, 29, and her husband, Timothy, 28. Also charged are Andrea L. Wick, 26, and Timothy J. Wick, 27.
The children often were punished when they cried or failed to sit still during church services, a former church member told authorities. "Phil was very strict about children being quiet during church," the complaint states.
John Caminiti told investigators in November that he does not allow his family to communicate with people outside his religious beliefs and has punished his wife and son by confining them to their rooms until they corrected their disobedience, according to the Wisconsin State Journal.
Attorney Jeffrey W. Nichols, who represents Alina Caminiti, described his client as a "caring mother who loves her children," according to the Minneapolis Star Tribune.
"I believe it is important to note that the children have never been removed from her or her husband's care despite these allegations and despite some unfair characterizations of her," he said.
All the children of the parents charged are remaining in their homes and the families are working with social workers from Dane County Human Services, the sheriff's office said.
I'm not going to take an MSM news article at face value, but it does paint a little different picture than the one presented by Dr. Boys.
Spanking a 1-1/2 month old infant doesn't work for me. Ever.
Boys has a well-deserved and earned Ph. D., and his Biblical discussion of child discipline is correct and spiritual in nature. Here is a summary of his credentials:
Dr. Don Boys was born in West Virginia, and received his early education there. Following his salvation as a teen, he preached on the streets of Huntington, in the jails, parks and missions. He entered Moody Bible Institute immediately after high school, was married and continued his education at Tennessee Temple College, Immanuel College and Heritage Baptist University where he earned his Ph.D. While an evangelist and Christian school administrator, Boys was elected to the Indiana House of Representatives, and was identified by the media as the "most conservative member of the General Assembly." (See further details above.)
If James White is the one I am thinking of, he has two masters (M. A., Th. M.) and two doctorates (Th. D., D. Min.) from widely recognized evangelical seminaries. Your estimate of their qualifications does not speak well of yours.
The readers of this article might well take heed of the wise Solomon's advice:
"Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell." (Prov. 23:13,14)
This is not metaphorical. It is literal, practical, and effective means to cause oppositional defiance of the child to cease as early as possible. Trying to discipline the child with your mouth is like trying to drive your car with the horn. It doesn't work.
The rod of correction may be the only method he/she can exercise good reasoning choose salvation and eternal life, rather than condemnation and eternity in Hell.
Thanks for the research.
So in other words, not only is Don Boys, Ph.D. illiterate, unable to construct a paragraph or convey a coherent thought in writing, but he is also a liar.
“Boys has a well-deserved and earned Ph. D.”
If that is the case, why is it that Dr. Boys has such difficulty with constructing paragraphs, using proper punctuation, spelling words correctly and telling the truth?
I couldn’t agree more. Jail Maryann Sumi.
What really frosts me is that this judge did even more than scold this Pastor and throw him in jail, she also has prevented him from earning a living in his chosen profession for 6+ years. Or is it even longer? It’s a little unclear in this article.
So her order violates his:
Freedom of Religion
Freedom of Speech
Right to pursuit of happiness
Right to work
Freedom to assemble
I’m sure that there are some other rights in there that she violated too.
Don’t interpret my response into support of hitting kids with weapons. I think the idea of whacking a child with a wooden spoon is appalling; but I doubt that it would hurt the child unless the parent turned the spoon into a stabbing weapon.
The issue of spanking is an emotional one and unlikely to be resolved soon.
Years ago I remember watching my neighbor moving into a house across the street. There was no fence and her four preschool children remained outside in the yard while she was arranging things inside. About once every two minutes, I’m not kidding, she would rush out and spank a child who had tried to venture into the street. I thought to myself this is ridiculous - - - how can it possibly work? But after an hour there were no attempts to leave the yard. The little brats had learned an important lesson. After that day I never criticized her methods.
Pro 23:13 Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die.
Pro 23:14 If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol.
If that is the case, why is it that Dr. Boys has such difficulty with constructing paragraphs, using proper punctuation, spelling words correctly and telling the truth? (from Uncle Slayton)
Well, Uncle, I have only written and published my own B. S. and Ph. D. theses, as well as many technical papers and reports. Even so, one of my my employers required all professionals to be instructed in writing and editing by professional journalists -- regardless of past writing history. Having Bob Burger's inscription of being one of his best students, on the flyleaf of his well-known text "How To Write So People Can Understand You," I feel competent to ask you what your qualifications are. So, what are they? (I will warn you that one of the things we learned in these advanced courses is that the typical high school English teacher is usually quite incapable of teaching useful, saleable communication prose.)
Note that in the article, Don Boys has written plenty of publishably formulated columns: "These columns go to newspapers, magazines, television, and radio stations."
In this column, did you find any other mistyped word than the word "judged"?
I found no trouble anywhere in the column in following his thought. What is your problem in the way he chose to punctuate or divide the thoughts?
And where in this article do you find Dr. Boys lying to you?
It seems as though you have a bigger problem with the philosophy of his Biblical applications than you do with the mechanics of his writing skills. Why don't you give us a link to some of your published work? That might be interesting --
(P. S.: You might want to put a comma between the words "correctly" and "and" in your comment quoted above.)
There’s got to be more to this story or else this pastor had the worst lawyer in creation.
It is true that the word as translated here is "strike," which carries the inference of to strike once. However, it is rendered as "beat" as in the KJV, ASV, and NASB where striking more than once may be meant. Either is permissible from the tense and voice, but the practical application is striking more than once. Moreover, the KJV word "correction" means more than merely a negative action, it means a satisfactory and positive response, and is a better translation here than "discipline."
But in raising four children, who themselves are/have raised 19 children, I have not seen that one stripe does not usually carry the discipline into action.
As a trainer, one finds out that you must break the will (NOT the spirit) of the individual being disciplined. One stroke can not do that, the first time.
Once the individual recognizes that you mean business, and that the strokes will be continued until compliance is achieved, discipline is starting to take place.
The next lesson to be taught is that the same procedure will take place consistently each and every time the same infraction occurs, without deviation and without remorse; compliance then will have begun.
When behavior patterns begin to appear that cause the rod to be produced, and the child sees the rod thus ceases and desists without further opposition, compliance is established without beating .
When a conduct of automatic correct response becomes habitual, compliance becomes obedience. By this time, a warning look is enough.
One who has learned to love one's parent has learned to dread disrespecting, disobeying, or disappointing that parent. It is a precursor to learning to love Our Father in Heaven.
The failure of the parent to lovingly use and respect the rod fails to prepare his/her child for responsible adult life, and reeks of misplaced compassion.
Ask a United States Marine if this is not so.
It is you who do not understand, either the language or the hermeneutics of these passages in Solomon's Proverbs. The Scripture is revealed by God and is His non-negotiable instruction. Normal interpretation is basic. This passage is basic. Literal interpretation is normal. Literal interpretation contains both literal and figurative-literal language. Figurative and/or allegorical interpretation (such as the one you propose) is not normal. The passage referred to (Prov. 13:24) has only one primary interpretation, only one meaning. it has only one sense. The rule is that when the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense.
The grammatical sense of the word "rod" is "shebet" in Hebrew, and is simple -- it means a stick. This spare-the-rod passage is in literal language and is to be translated and interpreted literally. It is taken as a direct order to a real parent from The God in clear terms of dealing with disobedience:
"He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes."
"Betimes" means "early" -- immediately after the infraction, while the lesson may still be learned.
There's more to this, but your application is not a correct interpretation.
Here's another passage, with a literal interpretation but with figurative-literal language:
"In the mouth of the foolish is a rod of pride: but the lips of the wise shall preserve them." (Prov. 14:3)
Your anger betrays you. And by the by you really ought to check your Strong’s.
Maybeif you prayed for me you will find some peace
What I note with interest is that many of the ‘former leftists’ like to yell louder at people who have been conservative for much much longer than they. It is almost like former smokers who think the rest of the world must see things their way.
This is an open forum on religion. Those who post do so, I would hope, with a good heart.
Anger most often masks fear