Posted on 10/08/2012 6:23:49 AM PDT by John Leland 1789
It is not a secret. It is just something joe sixpack didn’t bother to find out, the MSM didn’t want to report, and politicians - and especially other arab countries - want to ignore.
Anyone with more than a passing interest in the history of the “Palestinian” people has known this for a long time.
A leftist once tried to convince me that Communists don’t really exist because “true communism” has never been tried.
100 million+ dead chasing a pipe dream.
This is all sophistry. In 1948 70% of the population of the land between the Mediterranean and the Jordan River, called at the time Palestine, were Arabs. It is now estimated that, even excluding the refugees, they constitute 50% of the population of that area. What they are called is irrelevant, they still have the right to live in the land in which they were born.
Israel has only two just options: either annex all the territories and grant full and equal citizenship to all the inhabitants or divide the land between themselves and the Arabs, which was the rational for the creation of the State of Israel in the first place. I recognize that both options are unpalatable and will not argue which would be better. A third option of expulsion of the Arab population is just not going to happen and would lead to a war in which Israel would be isolated from the whole world, possibly even the U.S.
Suppose an Arab child is born, today, on the West Bank. What is the nationality of that child? Note that I'm asking about the child's nationality, not his ethnic membership. For example, what passport should he eventually hold?
Should he get a Jordanian passport? If so, then you're saying that the West Bank is really, today, Jordanian territory.
But that doesn't make much sense. Should a person born, today, in Boston be automatically eligible for a British passport, just because England once ruled Boston?
So should that Arab child get an Israeli passport? If so, then you're saying that everyone born on the West Bank is an Israeli citizen, with all the voting rights, rights of free movement throughout Israel, etc. as any other Israeli.
Such a situation might well lead to the end of Israel.
In my mind, neither “Jordanian” nor “Israeli” seems to fit that Arab child. So is the child therefore stateless, not eligible for any passport and not eligible to vote in any elections anywhere at any time?
That seems wrong also. IMHO, "Palestinian" is the only option left.
You have been seriously misled.
You might be able to make a case that there is no nation of Palestine. Asserting there are no Palestinians displays the depth of your ignorance and gullibility.
In 1917 the Balfour Declaration stated:
His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.
The existing "non-jewish" people are Palestinians.
In 1948 Israel was created. It pleaded with the Arab inhabitants to stay and live side by side with them. The surrounding Arab nations demanded that Arab leave the new state and allow them to drive the Jews into the sea. Some left, some stayed, and eventually became citizens.
The new Jewish nation was immediately attacked by the surrounding Arab nations. As a result, Trans-Jordan occupied what is now known as the West Bank, and changed its name to Jordan, since the original name means across the Jordan, and now they occupied land west of the Jordan.
Over 600,000 Jews were forcibly exiled from the middle eastern Arab states, and Israel refused entrance of Arabs who had left Israel, hoping that Israel would be destroyed, and they would come back in and take over the Jewish property that had been built up over two millennium.
The 600,000 Jews resettled in Israel and elsewhere outside of the middle east. The Arabs, who had left their lands to give Arab armies a free hand in destroying Israel, were left by their fellow Arabs in refugee camps on Israel's borders. Jordan destroyed Jewish synagogues in Jerusalem, destroyed the Jewish graveyards, and use the tombstones as floors for their urinals. Access to holy sites was closed off to Jews. All Arabs living in the area, occupied by Trans-Jordan following the 1948 war, were given Jordanian citizenship.
In 1967 Israel begged Jordan not to attack Israel along with Syria and Egypt. Jordan attacked and as a result lost the West Bank to Israel, including occupied Jerusalem.
Jews now possessed the Temple Mount, which had been lost to them in 70 AD when Roman legions, destroyed Jerusalem. Since approximately 1000 BC, Jerusalem has been the capital of only one nation, Israel. All invaders Roman, Byzantine, Muslim, or Crusader never established any other nation on that soil with Jerusalem a its capital.
Jews, in respect for all religious groups, gave open access to all faiths to its holy sites, including the Mosque of Omar and the Dome of the Rock, on the Temple Mount.
The only group ever referred to as “Palestinians” prior to June 1967, were the Jewish settlers. Once Jerusalem and West Bank came into possession of the Jews (following a deliberate attack by Arab armies), a subgroup of Arabs had to be created, that would be viewed as a small, persecuted minority, rather than part of the greater whole of Arab Islam, and its final goal of the reestablishment if a Muslim Caliph, controlling all Muslim lands throughout the world.
Many leaders calling themselves the Mahdi have come and gone over the last 1382 years of Muslim rule, but all follow the same pattern of deception, brute force, enslavement, and subjugation of all peoples who do not bow to Mohammad and Islam. After all, the word Islam means submission.
There is no love exhibited by the moon god Allah, only forced submission. That god was worshiped in ancient Babylon, and by Mohammad's father, as an idol, before Mohammad used it as a unifying force for Arab expansionism.
Sorry, but the land has already been divided.
And,, since the Israelis have kicked Arab ass repeatedly, there is a pretty good argument for them owning the West Bank, Gaza strip and Golan Heights “by right of Conquest.”
The land comes with the people. If they own the land then give the Arab residents full and equal citizenship.
You have a point. The Palis need to go, too. Load up the box cars and ship them back to Jordan or Egypt.
You’d have to be suicidal or an enemy of the state, to give citizenship to people who want to kill you and destroy your country.
Call them Palestinians or call them Jordanians or call them something else, there are a couple of million of them and they don’t like Israelies at all. Changing their name won’t make them go away.
You need to get your head out of the clouds and live in reality. After 64 years it is clear that neither the Arabs nor the Jews are going to leave. It is time that both sides give up their absolutist claims and come to just terms with each other.
You need to check the mirror. Palis are willing to kill to their own children to hurt Israel. There is no basis for change, no common ground with which to work.
To suicidal and enemy of the state, I’ll guess I’ll have to add “deluded dupe.”
Until the 1960s, ‘Palestinian’ meant ‘Jew’. I have seen Jewish IDs from the Mandate that said so. That’s why your example specified ‘non-Jewish communities’: If it had said ‘Palestinian’ it would have meant ‘Jewish’.
Just to be clear, ‘Jordanians’ are also a very modern creation, ruled by the family that were the protectors of Mecca before the Saudis.
The citation does not define "Palestinians" as non-Jews. It refers to communities in a place called Palestine which are not Jewish, and therefore tacitly acknowledges that there were communities which were to be otherwise distinguished as Jewish; the "existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine" as opposed to existing Jewish ones. Were there no distinction to be made, the language would be as redundant as saying 'existing Palestinian communities in Palestine', or 'existing non-Jewish communities in non-Jewish lands'.
"Palestinian" is a geographical identification and "Jew" is not. To contrast the two is a sensible as comparing "Italians" to "people from the West Coast".
This is an intellectual how many angels can dance on a pin arugment. It doesn’t matter what the Arabs living in Palestine were once. They are an insane, dangerous but distinct cultural entity now and the now is what the Israelis have to deal with.
This is an intellectual how many angels can dance on a pin arugment. It doesn’t matter what the Arabs living in Palestine were once. They are an insane, dangerous but distinct cultural entity now and the now is what the Israelis have to deal with.
This is an intellectual how many angels can dance on a pin arugment. It doesn’t matter what the Arabs living in Palestine were once. They are an insane, dangerous but distinct cultural entity now and the now is what the Israelis have to deal with.
Perhaps you need a little more history information on that area. THERE IS NO PALISTINE. That area ia not Arabic. You confuse this fact that all moslems are not Arabs but most Arabs are moslem. Syrians, Turks, Iranis, Iraquis are moslem but not Arabs. They are not from the Arabian peninsula. As a matter of fact they pretty much hate arabs. The Turkish word for dog and negro is “Arab”. The so called palistinians are a made up people.
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