Posted on 12/08/2012 2:24:39 PM PST by NYer
Do Catholics worship Mary? This question is as old as the Protestant Reformation itself, and it rests, like other disputed doctrinal points, on a false premise that has been turned into a wedge: the veneration of Mary detracts from the worship of Christ.
This seeming opposition between Mary and Christ is symptomatic of the Protestant tendency, begun by Luther, to view the entirety of Christian life through a dialectical lens – a lens of conflict and division. With the Reformation the integrity of Christianity is broken and its formerly coherent elements are now set in opposition. The Gospel versus the Law. Faith versus Works. Scripture versus Tradition. Authority versus Individuality. Faith versus Reason. Christ versus Mary.
The Catholic tradition rightly sees the mutual complementarity of these elements of the faith, as they all contribute to our ultimate end – living with God now and in eternity. To choose any one of these is to choose them all.
By contrast, to assert that Catholics worship Mary along with or in place of Christ, or that praying to Mary somehow impedes Christ’s role as “the one mediator between God and men” (1 Tim 2:5) is to create a false dichotomy between the Word made flesh and the woman who gave the Word his flesh. No such opposition exists. The one Mediator entrusted his mediation to the will and womb of Mary. She does not impede his mediation – she helps to make it possible.
Within this context we see the ancillary role that the ancilla Domini plays in her divine Son’s mission. Mary’s is not a surrogate womb rented and then forgotten in God’s plan. She is physically connected to Christ and his life, and because of this she is even more deeply connected to him in the order of grace. She is, in fact, “full of grace,” as only one who is redeemed by Christ could be.
The feast of Mary’s Immaculate Conception celebrates the very first act of salvation by Christ in the world. Redemption is made possible for all by his precious blood shed on the cross. Yet Mary’s role in the Savior’s life and mission is so critical and so unique that God saw it necessary to wash her in the blood of the Lamb in advance, at the first moment of her conception.
This reality could not be more Biblical: the angel greets Mary as “full of grace” (Luke 1:28), which is literally rendered as “already graced” (kecharitōmenē). Following Mary, the Church has “pondered what sort of greeting this might be” for centuries. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception, ultimately defined in 1854, is nothing other than a rational expression of the angel’s greeting contained in Scripture: Mary is “already graced” with Christ’s redemption at the very moment of her creation.
Because God called Mary to the unique vocation of serving as the Mother of God, it is not just her soul that is graced, as is the case for us when we receive the sacraments. Mary’s entire being, body and soul, is full of grace so that she may be a worthy ark for the New Covenant. And just as the ark of the old covenant was adorned with gold to be a worthy house for God’s word, Mary is conceived without original sin to be the living and holy house for God’s Word.
Thus Mary is not only conceived immaculately, that is, without stain of sin. She also is the Immaculate Conception. Her entire being was specifically created by God with unique privilege so that she could fulfill her role in God’s plan of salvation. “Free from sin,” both original and personal, is the necessary consequence of being “full of grace.”
Protestants claim that veneration of Mary as it is practiced by Catholics is not biblical. St. Paul encouraged the Corinthians to “be imitators of me, as I am of Christ” (1 Cor 11:1). Paul is not holding himself up as the end goal, but as a means to Christ, the true end. And if a person is imitated, he is simultaneously venerated.
If we should imitate Paul, how much more should we imitate Mary, who fulfilled God’s will to the greatest degree a human being could. Throughout her life she humbled herself so that God could be exalted, and because of this, Christ has fulfilled his promise by exalting his lowly mother to the seat closest to him in God’s kingdom.
Mary is the model of humility, charity, and openness to the will of God. She allows a sword to pierce her heart for the sake of the world’s salvation. She shows us the greatness to which we are called: a life free from sin and filled with God’s grace that leads to union with God in Heaven. She is the model disciple, and therefore worthy of imitation and veneration, not as an end in herself, but as the means to the very purpose of her – and our – existence: Christ himself.
God’s lowly handmaiden would not want it any other way.
Well said. Thanks
Take it up with Luther’s writings. A pen in his hands was dangerous at times
all those statements about Prots now being born again and part of the body of Christ, are misleading
Yes they are. They are a "lure" as an Orthodox would say. The proof is that they make people harden in their Protestantism, and therefore denial of true Christ. If, however, the love of Christ leads people to seek understanding and desire for union with the Church, then these are not far from the Kingdom, and may end up saved. First step is in every case dismissal as false the doctrine of ready-made instant salvation. From that point on, a salvation of a Protestant may occur, but he cannot stay Protestant if he goes all the way.
effectively sanctions the corporeal punishment (and death) by the Inquisition in the past
It is impossibly to convert by force and I never suggested otherwise. The fixation on the Inquisition is a reflexive defense Protestants have as they cannot justify their beliefs by the scripture, but want to cling on to them.
Some questions appear to be sincere.
No.
Chapter and verse please.
Yes; He indicated that there is certain labor before them and they wanted to know what labor is it if it is not for "the meat which perisheth". He answered: that labor is the labor of faith in Him. This shows that faith is not a declaration, but it is labor. Compare:
Sell what you possess and give alms. Make to yourselves bags which grow not old, a treasure in heaven which faileth not: where no thief approacheth, nor moth corrupteth. (Luke 12:33)
This is what faith is like: give what you have. This is now consistent with the direct desription of salvation in Matthew 25:31-46. Faith is what you do. The Protestant truncated faith is not consistent with it.
St. Paul: Romans 3:28 For we account a man to be justified by faith, without the works of the law.
CynicalBear: It’s faith ALONE
But it does not say "alone". You've added to the scripture. You may or may not know it, but Luther added that "allein", "alone" as well to his obfuscatory translation of the Bible, and later was forced to remove it. Your religion is based on fraud.
I dealt with John 6:27-29 in my previous post.
Impeccable? Always right? No. But that isn't what the Church teaches regarding papal infallibility. Strictly speaking, the pope can only teach infallibly regarding faith and morals, and then only when he himself invokes the privilege. The last time a pope formally exercised this power was regarding the doctrine of Mary's Assumption, sixty years ago, and arguably when the previous pope taught that women can never be priests.
Something can be true even if NO ONE believes it. Do you agree?
Yes. If Luther wasn't infallible, and if Christ's Church doesn't hold this doctrine, then the only justification for Luther's doctrine would be if it was biblical.
I don't find the doctrine of Scripture alone, as the sole rule of faith, to be biblical. Scripture is the inspired word of God, yes. But Luther's teaching isn't found in the Bible, either explicitly or implicitly.
Not at all. Even the word "adopt" is inconsistent with your explanation that adoption is "united with the love of Christ". It is more than that. Adoption is a legal term of ownership:
1. to choose or take as one's own; make one's own by selection or assent: to adopt a nickname.
2. to take and rear (the child of other parents) as one's own child, specifically by a formal legal act.
3. to take or receive into any kind of new relationship: to adopt a person as a protégé.
Heb 12:5 And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? "My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. Heb 12:6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives."
uihothesia hwee-oth-es-ee'-ah
the placing as a son, that is, adoption (figuratively Christian sonship in respect to God): - adoption (of children, of sons).
A description is introduced of the Justification of the impious, and of the Manner thereof under the law of grace. By which words, a description of the Justification of the impious is indicated,-as being a translation, from that state wherein man is born a child of the first Adam, to the state of grace, and of the adoption of the sons of God, through the second Adam, Jesus Christ, our Saviour. And this translation, since the promulgation of the Gospel, cannot be effected, without the laver of regeneration, or the desire thereof, as it is written; unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.
Has the Church lost it's understanding of what "adopt" means?
Harley,
You’re trying to be too legalistic about this very simple teaching of adoption being a union of love between God and man when man opens himself on such things as love of neighbor for example
Example from New Advent.org
The expression “to love the neighbour for the sake of God” means that we rise above the consideration of mere natural solidarity and fellow-feeling to the higher view of our common Divine adoption and heavenly heritage; in that sense only could our brotherly love be brought near to the love which Christ had for us (John 13:35), and a kind of moral identity between Christ and the neighbour (Matthew 25:40), become intelligible. From this high motive the universality of fraternal charity follows as a necessary consequence. Whosoever sees in his fellow-men, not the human peculiarities, but the God-given and God-like privileges, can no longer restrict his love to members of the family, or co-religionists, or fellow-citizens, or strangers within the borders (Leviticus 19:34), but must needs extend it, without distinction of Jew or Gentile (Romans 10:12), to all the units of the human kind, to social outcasts (Luke 10:33 sqq.), and even to enemies (Matthew 5:23 sq.). Very forcible is the lesson wherein Christ compels His hearers to recognize, in the much despised Samaritan, the true type of the neighbour, and truly new is the commandment whereby He urges us to forgive our enemies, to be reconciled with them, to assist and love them.
“”Clearly they used the term adoption as part of the regeneration process. Something far more happens than a simple union.””
Harley, if Christ is regenerating someone then there is a union of love where man opens himself to accept to be regenerated
From Saint Thomas Aquinas as another example
St. Thomas (II-II, Q. xxiv, 24 a. 4 and 8) mentions three principal stages:
1. freedom from mortal sin by strenuous resistance to temptation,
2. avoidance of deliberate venial sins by the assiduous practice of virtue,
3 union with God through the frequent recurrence of acts of love.
Harley, if you really want to break this down to it’s core , Adoption is our will wanting to be in union with the Divine will of God who consistently “pines” at our hearts to follow His law of love written on our hearts.
There are many ways to express this both simply and theologically.
Have to get back to work.
I wish you a blessed day!
That wasn’t a quote from scripture nor did I present it as a quote from scripture.
The Catholic misconception of Protestant faith is not consistent with it.
There, fixed it for ya.
Your chosen religion sure thought that one would RECANT by force!
As if.
How many times do I have to post John 6:28-29?
I dealt with John 6:27-29 in my previous post.
And you thought you did a real good job; didn't you!
You will love me even if I have to beat or threaten you to.
Pastor Chuck Smith
Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa
Costa Mesa, California
“GOEL”
Intro: The world “Goel” means kinsman redeemer. The word redemption carries with it the idea of gaining back something lost.
I. THE BIBLE ESTABLISHED THE LAWS OF REDEMPTION, WHICH APPLIED TO A MAN OR HIS LAND.
A. Whenever you lost your land terms were established for the price of its redemption.
1. You could lose it by selling out.
2. A time limit was established for redemption, usually six years.
B. A provision in the law gave power to the goel or kinsman redeemer.
1. If it was impossible for you to redeem your land, the kinsman could step in and take your part so that the land would stay in the family.
a. He had to be willing and able to pay the price.
b. He must assume all the responsibilities of the land.
2. Another law of the kinsman whose brother died childless.
a. You must marry his wife and name first son after dead brother.
II THE CASE OF NAOMI.
A. She with her husband had sold their land in Bethlehem and with their two sons moved to Moab.
1. While in Moab both sons married and died before children were conceived.
2. Her husband Elimelech also died.
3. The family was facing extinction.
B. The parcel they had sold was coming up for redemption.
1. If a kinsman would redeem it he would be obligated also to raise up a son through Ruth the daughter-in-law.
2. When Ruth asked Boaz to spread his covering over her, she was asking him to become the goel and to give her a son.
a. Boaz loved Ruth and desired to fulfill the kinsman obligations.
b. Another family member was of closer kin, thus had first rights.
1. This other family member desired the land but not Ruth.
2. Boaz desired Ruth, could care less for land.
c. Boaz redeemed the field to get the bride.
III. HISTORY IS ACTUALLY HIS STORY AND MAYBE JESUS WAS THINKING OF THIS BIT OF FAMILY HISTORY WHEN HE SPOKE A KINGDOM PARABLE.
A. Kingdom of heaven like a man going through a field and discovering a treasure.
1. He sells all to buy the field so as to obtain the treasure.
2. Now the field is the world.
a. Sold out by Adam to Satan.
b. Man is spiritually bankrupt unable to redeem.
3. Jesus became a man or kinsman so He could redeem.
a. “In the beginning was the word.”
b. “And the word became flesh.”
c. “He was in the world and the world...”
1. The fish knew Him.
2. The trees knew Him.
3. The rocks knew Him.
4. The wind and waves knew Him.
5. The donkey new Him.
6. But this stupid world which prides itself in being so smart didn’t know Him then or now.
B. Jesus as our “Goel.”
1. He must be willing. “The Son of Man has come...”
2. He must be able. “Wherefore He is able to save all...”
3. He must pay the price “In whom we have redemption through His blood...”
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