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According to Scripture (Where is sola scriptura itself taught in the Bible?)
Catholic Answers ^ | Tim Staples

Posted on 06/22/2013 1:01:24 PM PDT by NYer

"If a teaching isn’t explicit in the Bible, then we don’t accept it as doctrine!" That belief, commonly known as sola scriptura, was a central component of all I believed as a Protestant. This bedrock Protestant teaching claims that Scripture alone is the sole rule of faith and morals for Christians. Diving deeper into its meaning to defend my Protestant faith against Catholicism about twenty years ago, I found that there was no uniform understanding of this teaching among Protestant pastors and no book I could read to get a better understanding of it.

What role does tradition play? How explicit does something have to be in Scripture before it can be called doctrine? Does Scripture tell us what is absolutely essential for us to believe as Christians? How can we determine the canon using sola scriptura? All these questions and more pointed to the central question: Where is sola scriptura itself taught in the Bible?

Most Protestants find it in 2 Timothy 3:16-17:

All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

The fact is that this passage (or any other) does not even hint at Scripture being the sole rule of faith. It says that Scripture is inspired and necessary—a rule of faith—but in no way does it teach that Scripture alone is all one needs to determine the truth about faith and morals in the Church. My attempt to defend this bedrock teaching of Protestantism led me to conclude that sola scriptura is unreasonable, unbiblical, and unworkable.

Unreasonable

The Protestant appeal to the sole authority of Scripture to defend sola scriptura is a textbook example of circular reasoning, and it betrays an essential problem with the doctrine itself: It is contrary to reason. One cannot prove the inspiration of Scripture, or any text, from the text itself. The Book of Mormon, the Hindu Vedas, the Qur’an, the writings of Mary Baker Eddy, and other books all claim inspiration, but this does not make them inspired.

Closely related to this is the question of the canon. After all, if the Bible is the sole rule of faith, we first have to know which books are included in the Bible. Many books were believed to be inspired and, therefore, canonical in the early Church. How do we separate the wheat from the chaff? The Protestant must use the principle of sola scriptura to answer the question of the canon. It simply cannot be done.

I recall a conversation with a Protestant friend about this. He said, "The Holy Spirit guided the early Christians and helped them gather the canon of Scripture and declare it to be the inspired word of God, as Jesus said in John 16:13." I thought that that answer was more Catholic than Protestant. John 16:13 does tells us that the Spirit will lead the apostles, and by extension, the Church, into truth. But it has nothing to say about sola scriptura or the nature or number of books in the canon.

The Bible does not and cannot answer questions about its own inspiration or about the canon. Historically, the Church used sacred Tradition outside of Scripture as its criterion for the canon. The early Christians, many of whom disagreed on the issue, needed the Church in council to give an authoritative decree to settle the question. Those are the historical facts.

To put my friend’s argument into perspective, imagine a Catholic making a similar claim to demonstrate that Mary is the Mother of God. "We believe the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth and guided the early Christians to declare this truth." Would the Protestant respond with a hearty amen? No. He would be more likely to say, "Show me where it says in the Bible that Mary is the Mother of God!" The same question, of course, applies to Protestants concerning the canon: "Show me where the canon of Scripture is in the Bible!"

Will the Circle Be Unbroken?

The issues of the inspiration and canon of Scripture are the Achilles heel of any intellectual defense of sola scriptura. So weak are the biblical attempts at an answer that often the Protestant response just turns the argument against the Catholic. "How do you know Scripture is inspired? Your reasoning is just as circular. You say the Church is infallible because the inspired Scripture says so, then you say that Scripture is inspired and infallible because the Church says so!"

Not only is this not an answer, but it also misrepresents the Catholic position. Catholics do not claim the Church is infallible because Scripture says so. The Church is infallible because Jesus said so. The Church was established and functioning as the infallible spokesperson for the Lord decades before the New Testament was written.

It is true that we know Scripture to be inspired and canonical only because the Church has told us so. That is historical fact. Catholics reason to inspiration of Scripture through demonstrating first its historical reliability and the truth about Christ and the Church. Then we can reasonably rely upon the testimony of the Church to tell us the text is inspired. This is not circular reasoning. The New Testament is the most accurate and verifiable historical document in all of ancient history, but one cannot deduce from this that it is inspired.

The testimony of the New Testament is backed up by hundreds of works by early Christian and non-Christian writers. We have the first-century testimonies of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, the Church Fathers—some of whom were contemporaries of the apostles—and highly reliable non-Christian writers such as Suetonius, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Josephus, and others, all testifying to the veracity of the Christ-event in various ways. It is on the basis of the historical evidence that we can say it is a historical fact that Jesus lived, died and was reported to be resurrected from the dead by over 500 eyewitnesses (1 Cor. 15:6). Many of these eyewitnesses went to their deaths testifying to the truth of the Resurrection of Christ (Luke 1:1-4; John 21:18-19; 24-25; Acts 1:1-11).

The historical record also tells us that Jesus Christ established a Church—not a book—to be the foundation of the Christian faith (Matt. 16:15-18; 18:15-18; cf. Eph. 2:20; 3:10, 20-21; 4:11-15; 1 Tim. 3:15; Heb. 13:7, 17). Christ said of his Church, "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me" (Luke 10:16).

The many books that comprise the Bible never tell us that they are inspired, nor do they answer many other essential questions about their canonicity. Who can or cannot be the human authors of the texts? Who wrote them in the first place? But Scripture does tell us—remarkably clearly—that Jesus established a kingdom on earth, the Church, with a hierarchy and the authority to speak for him (Luke 20:29-32; Matt. 10:40; 28:18-20). If we did not have Scripture, we would still have the Church. But without the Church, there would be no New Testament Scripture. It was members of this kingdom, the Church, who wrote Scripture, preserved its many texts, and eventually canonized it. Scripture alone could not do any of this.

The bottom line is that the truth of the Catholic Church is rooted in history. Jesus Christ is a historical person who gave his authority to his Church to teach, govern, and sanctify in his place. His Church gave us the New Testament with the authority of Christ. Reason rejects sola scriptura as a self-refuting principle.

Unbiblical

There are four problems with the defense of sola scriptura using 2 Timothy 3:16. First, it does not speak of the New Testament at all. The two verses preceding 2 Timothy 3:16 say:

But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

This passage does not refer to the New Testament. In fact, none of the New Testament books had been written when Timothy was a child. Claiming this verse as authentication for a book that had not been written yet goes far beyond what the text claims.

Second, 2 Timothy 3:16 does not claim Scripture to be the sole rule of faith for Christians. As a Protestant, I was guilty of seeing more than one sola in Scripture that simply did not exist. The Bible teaches justification by faith, and we Catholics believe it, but we do not believe in justification by faith alone, as Protestants do. Among other reasons, the Bible says that we are "justified by works and not by faith alone" (Jas. 2:24). There is no sola in 2 Timothy 3:16 either. The passage never claims Scripture to be the sole rule of faith.

James 1:4 illustrates the problem:

And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

If we apply the same principle of exegesis to this text that the Protestant does to 2 Timothy 3:16, then we would have to say that all we need is patience (steadfastness) to be perfected. We don’t need faith, hope, charity, the Church, baptism, or anything else.

Of course, any Christian knows this would be absurd. But James’s emphasis on the central importance of patience is even stronger than Paul’s emphasis on Scripture. The key is to see that there is not a sola in either text. Sola patientia would be just as wrong as sola scriptura.

Third, the Bible teaches that oral Tradition is equal to Scripture. It is silent when it comes to sola scriptura, but it is remarkably clear in teaching that oral Tradition is just as much the word of God as Scripture is. In what most scholars believe was the first book written in the New Testament, Paul said:

And we also thank God . . . that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God. (1 Thess. 2:13)

According to Paul, the spoken words of the apostles were the word of God. In fact, when Paul wrote his second letter to the Thessalonians, he urged Christians there to receive the oral and written Traditions as equally authoritative. This would be expected because both are the word of God:

So, then, brethren stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter. (2 Thess. 2:15)

Finally, 2 Timothy 3:16 is specifically addressed to members of the hierarchy. It is a pastoral epistle, written to a young bishop Paul had ordained. R. J. Foster points out that the phrase "man of God" refers to ministers, not to the average layperson (A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture, Thomas Nelson and Sons, 1149). This title was used in the Old Testament to describe those consecrated to the service of God (Deut. 33:1; 1 Sam. 2:27; 1 Kgs. 12:22). Not only does the text not say Scripture sola, but Paul’s exhortation for Timothy to study the word of God is in the context of an exhortation to "preach the word" as a minister of Christ. To use this text to claim that sola scriptura is being taught to the average layperson is—to borrow a phrase from Paul—going far "beyond what is written" (1 Cor. 4:6).

Unworkable

The silence of Scripture on sola scriptura is deafening. But when it comes to the true authority of Scripture and Tradition and to the teaching and governing authority of the Church, the text is clear:

If your brother sins against you go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. . . . But if he does not listen, take one or two others with you. . . . If he refuses to listen . . . tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. (Matt. 18:15-17)

According to Scripture, the Church is the final court of appeal for the people of God in matters of faith, morals, and discipline. It is telling that since the Reformation of almost 500 years ago—a Reformation claiming sola scriptura as its formal principle—there are now over 33,000 Protestant denominations. In John 10:16, Jesus prophesied there would be "one flock, one shepherd." Reliance on sola scriptura has not been effective in establishing doctrine or authority.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; itisnt; scripture; solascriptura; tradition
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To: vladimir998
And he did say Jesus became flesh, but I want to know if he believes Jesus is man right now.

That's an interesting question.

Kinda hinges on the definition of 'man'.


To me; it appears that 'In the Beginning...' the GODhead consisted of 3 spirits: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

One of them took on flesh and resided on Earth for a while.

Did the 'flesh' make Jesus a 'man'?

Was (is) Jesus MORE than 'man'?

It's as hard for me think of Christ as a 'man'; with god-like powers; as it is for me to think of Him as GOD that somehow 'limited' His powers while incarnated.


I did not want to use to descriptive "3 spirits" as some might think I believe in multiple gods; like Mormonism teaches; but I can't think of another way to do it right now.

Perhaps a 3 part Spirit would be a better way.

421 posted on 06/25/2013 7:33:19 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: impimp
I know of no Protestant church that rejects the catholic New Testament, although Luther tried.

he DID?

I thought he was a CATHOLIC??

422 posted on 06/25/2013 7:34:24 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

He was a Catholic, then a heretic, then a Protestant.

He didn’t like Hebrews, revelation, and James, among others.


423 posted on 06/25/2013 7:44:40 PM PDT by impimp
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To: piusv
As for the Church having to "correct" herself many times, I question what those times are because I'm willing to bet that those things are probably not doctrine per se. Or what you think was a correction really wasn't. Yes, doctrine can develop with further understanding, but developments should NEVER contradict earlier understanding. I would argue that this further development is much like what many Protestants here talk about when they assert that they receive further understanding of Scripture as time goes on. I also suspect that the "additions" you refer to are not truly "additions". You are probably referring to pronouncements that are made hundreds of years later in response to misunderstandings of Church teaching (for clarification) or in response to heresies. The teachings that were clarified/pronounced were not new. They were always believed. For example, the teaching on the Immaculate Conception was promulgated in 1854 to clarify but it was always believed. It was not a new teaching in 1854.

Are you familiar with the opposing views of St. Vincent of Lerins and John Henry Newman with regard to doctrinal development in the Catholic Church? Vincent believed that the doctrines that were to be believed by Christians were those that were believed "everywhere, always and by all" (quod ubique, quod semper, quod ab omnibus creditum est). This idea was supposedly affirmed by the Council of Trent, with the idea of "unanimous consent of the fathers" - which looks to the past for validation of current doctrines and the interpretation of Scripture.

Newman, on the other hand, in the late nineteenth century, came up with the idea of the "development of doctrine" theory. He knew that there were many doctrines that the Catholic Church held to which did not have either the unanimous consent of the fathers nor antiquity to back them up. He stated:

    It does not seem possible, then, to avoid the conclusion that, whatever be the proper key for harmonizing the records and documents of the early and later Church, and true as the dictum of Vincentius must be considered in the abstract, and possible as its application might be in his own age, when he might almost ask the primitive centuries for their testimony, it is hardly available now, or effective of any satisfactory result. The solution it offers is as difficult as the original problem. (John Henry Newman, An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine (New York: Longmans, Green and Co., reprinted 1927), p. 27)

There are myriad links I could give you that discuss these various ideas about the development of and changes to Catholic doctrines if you are interested. I won't bombard you with data if you are not. It is worth looking into, at least, that some to much of what modern-day Catholics are told about their church and its history is unproven and/or untrue. If you are like me, you would want to know the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I bid you peace.

424 posted on 06/25/2013 8:12:10 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: impimp; Elsie
He didn’t like Hebrews, revelation, and James, among others.

Luther never removed ANY books from his German translation of the Bible. He even translated the Apocryphal books and included them, too. Some Catholics don't like the epistles of St. Paul. So what?

425 posted on 06/25/2013 8:23:24 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080117044524AABDU4m


426 posted on 06/25/2013 9:36:44 PM PDT by impimp
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To: impimp
http://tquid.sharpens.org/Luther_%20canon.htm#a2
427 posted on 06/25/2013 10:28:41 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: impimp

Good link:

Luther wanted to remove the Epistle of James, Esther, Hebrews, Jude and Revelation.

Calvin and Zwingli also both had problems with the Book of Revelation, the former calling it “unintelligible” and forbidding the pastors in Geneva to interpret it, the latter calling it “unbiblical”.

Many non-Catholic Christians like to accuse Catholics of “adding” Books to the Bible at the 16th c. Council of Trent. This is absolutely, 100% false. This Council, among other things, simply affirmed the ancient accepted books in the face of Protestant tinkering. How could Luther have relegated the deuterocanonical books to an appendix if they hadn’t already been accepted in the first place? The Gutenberg Bible was printed in 1454 — and it included the deuterocanonical Books. How could the Church have “added” them at the Council of Trent that began 91 years later? Most Protestant Bibles included the deuterocanonical Books until about 1815, when the British and Foreign Bible Society discontinued the practice! And note that Jews in other parts of the world who weren’t around to hear the Council of Jamnia’s decision in A.D. 100 include to this day those “extra” 7 books in their canon.

The Orthodox Russian and other branches of the Eastern Orthodox Church have a New Testament identical with the Catholic. In Syria the Nestorians possess a Canon almost identical with the final one of the ancient East Syrians; they exclude the four smaller Catholic Epistles and Apocalypse. The Monophysites receive all the book. The Armenians have one apocryphal letter to the Corinthians and two from the same. The Coptic-Arabic Church include with the canonical Scriptures the Apostolic Constitutions and the Clementine Epistles. The Ethiopic New Testament also contains the so-called “Apostolic Constitutions”.

As for Protestantism, the Anglicans and Calvinists always kept the entire New Testament But for over a century the followers of Luther excluded Hebrews, James, Jude, and Apocalypse, and even went further than their master by rejecting the three remaining deuterocanonicals, II Peter, II and III John. The trend of the seventeenth century Lutheran theologians was to class all these writings as of doubtful, or at least inferior, authority. But gradually the German Protestants familiarized themselves with the idea that the difference between the contested books of the New Testament and the rest was one of degree of certainty as to origin rather than of instrinsic character. The full recognition of these books by the Calvinists and Anglicans made it much more difficult for the Lutherans to exclude the New Testament deuteros than those of the Old. One of their writers of the seventeenth century allowed only a theoretic difference between the two classes, and in 1700 Bossuet could say that all Catholics and Protestants agreed on the New Testament canon. The only trace of opposition now remaining in German Protestant Bibles is in the order, Hebrews, coming with James, Jude, and Apocalypse at the end; the first not being included with the Pauline writings, while James and Jude are not ranked with the Catholic Epistles.


428 posted on 06/25/2013 10:34:11 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation; impimp

The real question is DID Luther “remove” any books? The answer is NO, he didn’t.


429 posted on 06/25/2013 11:18:27 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Salvation

What is the source for your comments?


430 posted on 06/25/2013 11:19:28 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Iscool; CynicalBear
Can you find something more trivial to try to get me to continue with you?

Well CB you gave him an out and he wasn't smart enough to take it.

Like I said this is izzy's position:And I correctly said that was conjecture on your part since the only evidence we have is that Jesus called Simon Cephas in Greek, not Kephas in Aramaic as you insisted...And none of us has any idea that they all spoke Aramaic...Again conjecture...

Would you care to explain to him that whether you spell it Cephas or Kephas, it is still Aramaic?

431 posted on 06/26/2013 1:59:58 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: impimp
He didn’t like Hebrews, revelation, and James, among others.

Sounds like he was in good company.

Didn't a bunch of Catholics get together and decide which books THEY liked?

They became the NT; if I recall correctly.

432 posted on 06/26/2013 4:23:55 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Yes - you are right.


433 posted on 06/26/2013 5:11:48 AM PDT by impimp
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To: verga; Iscool
>>Would you care to explain to him that whether you spell it Cephas or Kephas, it is still Aramaic?

Now why in the world would I do that when we can go check?

http://www.behindthename.com/name/kephas

KEPHAS
GENDER: Masculine
USAGE: Biblical Greek
OTHER SCRIPTS: Κηφας (Ancient Greek)
Meaning & History>br> Greek form of CEPHAS

It would seem that Kephas had it’s origins in Aramaic but was used in Biblical Greek as well. I know the Catholics would love to limit the meaning to rock because they desperately need something to hold on to given the plethora of scripture that disputes the claim that the church was founded on Peter as it’s head, it’s a rather weak stand they take.

One verse in scripture, misinterpreted by the RCC, on which their entire structure rests is a foundation built on sand.

Stand on the Kephas is Aramaic sand dune if you wish but it makes you appear desperate in my opinion.

434 posted on 06/26/2013 5:33:08 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: impimp; Elsie
[Luther] was a Catholic, then a heretic, then a Protestant. He didn’t like Hebrews, revelation, and James, among others.

And Catholics don't like Paul. Your point is?

435 posted on 06/26/2013 6:10:51 AM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: CynicalBear; Iscool
Kephas is Aramaic for the word Rock and it only means rock., It has no other meanings. Neither the Greek equivalent Petros nor, with one isolated exception, Kephas is attested as a personal name before Christian times.

http://www.aboutcatholics.com/beliefs/the-origin-of-the-papacy/

Cephas meaning and name origin Cephas \ce-phas\ as a boy's name is of Hebrew origin, and the meaning of Cephas is "rock"., Biblical: what Jesus called his apostle Simon. Peter is the Latin translation by which he is more frequently known. Read more at http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Cephas#db7lKoj7sgcDzemP.99

436 posted on 06/26/2013 6:11:26 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: boatbums

GMTA!!!

LOL


437 posted on 06/26/2013 6:12:06 AM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom
And Catholics don't like Paul. Your point is?

What do you mean, I love Paul.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 “As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church”

438 posted on 06/26/2013 6:16:17 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: metmom

And the rest of quote is: “And fools seldom differ.”


439 posted on 06/26/2013 6:17:09 AM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: CynicalBear
For anyone interested in actually knowing the meaning of words.....

But then, knowing the meanings would destroy the house of cards built around the misinterpretation of the verse. Structures are not build on pebbles or small stones but on bedrock. The bedrock is not the one who Jesus said *Get behind me, Satan.* nor is bedrock the one who denied Jesus three times out of fear.

But they can't say they don't know. If they persist in believing then it's because they don't want to believe the truth, they want to believe what they want to believe, truth be damned.

Petra – Peter rock

Matthew 16:18 - http://bible.cc/matthew/16-18.htm

Jesus said that Peter was *petros*(masculine) and that on this *petra*(feminine) He would build His church.

Greek: 4074 Pétros (a masculine noun) – properly, a stone (pebble), such as a small rock found along a pathway. 4074 /Pétros (”small stone”) then stands in contrast to 4073 /pétra (”cliff, boulder,” Abbott-Smith).

“4074 (Pétros) is an isolated rock and 4073 (pétra) is a cliff” (TDNT, 3, 100). “4074 (Pétros) always means a stone . . . such as a man may throw, . . . versus 4073 (pétra), a projecting rock, cliff” (S. Zodhiates, Dict).

4073 pétra (a feminine noun) – “a mass of connected rock,” which is distinct from 4074 (Pétros) which is “a detached stone or boulder” (A-S). 4073 (pétra) is a “solid or native rock, rising up through the earth” (Souter) – a huge mass of rock (a boulder), such as a projecting cliff.

4073 (petra) is “a projecting rock, cliff (feminine noun) . . . 4074 (petros, the masculine form) however is a stone . . . such as a man might throw” (S. Zodhiates, Dict).

It’s also a strange way to word the sentence that He would call Peter a rock and say that on this I will build my church instead of *on you* as would be grammatically correct in talking to a person.

There is no support from the original Greek for the idea that Jesus meant Peter to be that which He was going to build His church on. The nouns are not the same as one is feminine and the other masculine and denote different objects.

440 posted on 06/26/2013 6:18:34 AM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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