Posted on 08/06/2013 3:58:20 PM PDT by marshmallow
Readers of First Things probably know this already, but here’s a follow up on a story from earlier this year. In February, archaeologists confirmed that they had discovered the remains of King Richard III beneath a parking lot in Leicester. Richard died in battle at Bosworth Field in August 1485; the Tudor victors gave him a rather unceremonious burial in what was then a local abbey. Richard will now be re-interred in Leicester’s Anglican cathedral, most likely next May. Back in February, some Catholics objected that Richard, who was Catholic, should by rights be buried in a Catholic ceremony in a Catholic sanctuary. According to the Law and Religion UK blog, however, the Catholic Church in the UK will not insist. The Catholic Bishop of Nottingham states:
The Bishop is pleased that the body of King Richard III has been found under the site of Greyfriars Church in Leicester, in which it was buried following the Battle of Bosworth in 1485, and that it will be reinterred with dignity in the city where he has lain for over five hundred years......
(Excerpt) Read more at firstthings.com ...
So did medieval Roman Catholic cemetaries in England cease to be Roman Catholic “holy ground” when all the churches became separate from the Church of Rome?
That's the bottom line, really.
Why not use the ancient Druid tripartite test?
1. Have his bones turned to wood?
2. Is he heavier than a duck?
3. Will he float?
Will the Westboro Baptist Church protest?
Not only a legend, they found the bodies after an excavation a few years back.
Or at least that was the story from a guide we were with two months ago.
It’s simply NOT dubious that the Church in England, and the Church of England, have been the same entity, before and after the Reformation-era split with Rome. The same bishops, same cathedrals, same churches...which were once in communion with Rome, broke communion with Rome—with the Act of Supremacy in 1534. It wasn’t a group of rebels that “stole” churches from the Roman catholics, rather the whole country—like it or not—withdrew from Roman church rule.
If alliance to Jesus makes a church denomination a Church—than the CofE goes back nearly 2000 years; if alliance to Rome is what makes a denomination a church then, well CofE hasn’t been a Church in nearly 500 years. You can’t have it both ways—either the CofE is, and always has been, Christian, or not.
The bodies of the two princes have been discovered? That’s news.
It is a bit silly to argue over the remains of a King who was so evil in his actions...his soul is likely NOT with the King of Kings now...
I think the funniest bit was after they confirmed that it was indeed Richard III.
“When notified, Her Highness was engaged in packing her suitcase, intending to flee to an unidentified nation that does not extradite to the UK. When assured that any possible prosecution was impossible because of the statute of limitations, and as sovereign she was immune from lawsuits brought by surviving Plantagenet or House of York descendants, she replied, “Well, bloody Hell, then. Fetch me a double Scotch on the rocks, boy! Chop chop!”
LOW
KNEE
They no longer partook of the Eucharist, there t;hey were in direct disobedience to what Jesus Christ Himself said to do from that time forward. There is no unbroken chain back to Christ if there is no unbroken chain of His body and His blood.
Sounds like you're the one who wants to have it both ways by claiming that thumbing your nose at Jesus Christ doesn't break your connection to Christ.
I think you’re oversimplifying things in suggesting that England’s schism was universally agreed upon.
However, I’m not in the mood to pick a fight with Anglicans. I have no doubt Richard III received proper rites when he was originally interred, so what the British government decides to do in the pageantry of this means little to me.
They found two young boys skeletons under stairs when renovating the tower. The Queen, so far, refuses to allow testing to determine if they are the two young Princes who rumors indicate were smothered on their Uncle’s orders. It is almost 100% these two young Princes. Who else would be disposed of under stone stairs in the Tower?
i dont know
“Church in England, and the Church of England, have been the same entity”
It’s a plain and simple lie. Sure, it’s been a lie promoted since the Elizabethan era, but it’s still a lie.
“The same bishops”
Not so. Elizabeth executed all the Catholic priests and bishops.
“same cathedrals”
Henry VIII confiscated them from the Catholic church.
“which were once in communion with Rome, broke communion with Rome—with the Act of Supremacy in 1534”
Then why were Catholics loyal to the pope executed by Henry VIII and Elizabeth if this were so?
“than the CofE goes back nearly 2000 years”
Pure fantasy. The CofE originates with Henry VIII, who appointed Cranmore to the bishopric (he was not a bishop prior).
“well CofE hasn’t been a Church in nearly 500 years.”
False dilemma. Neither is true. A church can exist out of communion with Rome. That the RCC existed long before the Anglican church is historical fact. That the English Catholic church (look at the confessor), existed, is a fact. That Henry VIII confiscated church property (which has not been returned), is a fact. That the Plantagenets (who were from France and not England), were Catholics, is a fact. So were the Saxons for that matter.
Cranmore was not a RCC bishop prior to Henry VIII - he was appointed that position by Henry. You’re saying ‘the same bishops’ were in the Anglican church - this is false.
He would have us believe that the church founded on divorce and blessing sodomy is the true church. That the Anglican church has endorsed sodomy is evidence that not only are they not a true church, that they have never been.
The present heirs would be the Jacobins.
You mean the Jacobites.
“In accordance with long-established ecumenical practice, Bishop Malcolm will be happy to take part in any form of ceremony which takes place to mark his final burial.”
The Catholic Church is taking this “ecumenism” crap to an extreme. The man was a Catholic and he deserves to buried in a Catholic cemetery. And, “Yes, it does make a difference whether a Catholic is buried in a Catholic cemetery”.
Shame on the “Catholic” bishops of England.
Sorry, marshmallow. I wasn’t responding to you, it was Bishop Malcom whom I meant to address.
Bleargh. thank you.
Insofar as they have not been returned to the Church, they are no different from the Hagia Sophia. Holy but desecrated.
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