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Joel Osteen Rebukes Apostles Paul, Peter, and John
United for Awakening ^ | 8/27/13 | Peter Michael Martinez

Posted on 08/28/2013 12:22:54 PM PDT by Sopater

According to Joel Osteen – Pastor of Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas, these first century apostles are wrong and outdated and he has come out boldly to infer indirectly that Apostles Paul, Peter, and John whom wrote much of the New Testament were wrong and need to be corrected and rebuked.

When asked directly if people whom are openly practicing homosexuals are accepted into the Kingdom, Joel Osteen responded with “Absolutely, anybody is.”

We all need to listen carefully to the words that this “man of God” speaks as he goes on interviews so we too can find the errors in the preaching of the first century apostles.

Joel does acknowledge that some things are “sin” but says, “I don’t address these things from the pulpit. They only come up in interviews.” When asked if openly practicing gay/homosexual people will be accepted into heaven, Joel Osteen responded, “I believe they will.”

He makes no mention of the need for repentance.

Joel Osteen Brings Us Universalism

The doctrine of universalism is the belief that all people are “saved” no matter who you are or what you’ve done.

This is a new version of the “good news” that is MUCH BETTER than the message the Jesus and the Apostles preached 2,ooo years ago which was far too narrow according to the way Joel Osteen explains his “message.”

“I’m for everybody” says Joel Osteen, “I’m not into excluding people. Jesus can reveal himself to anybody.”

The idea is that since no one would be accepted if we are called to be “holy” then all have to be accepted. So goes this logic. This doctrine also believes that all roads lead to heaven so there is no one “way, truth, and life that leads to the father.”

According to Joel, “sin means to miss the mark” which, while technically correct, stands in contrast to the teachings of many writers of the Bible that teach that sin is violation of God’s Holy Laws so if by missing the mark Joel means violating God’s ways, then yes, sin is missing the mark.

According to the out of date writers of the Bible, the “wages of sin is death” for which blood is required and for which a sacrifice was presented.

It sounds a lot more harsh to say SIN is TREASON punishable by death than to say it is “missing the mark” which is a bit incomplete. Sin is also “to incur guilt, incur penalty” which according to the scripture is death.

Romans 6:23 “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

When asked about people who live in open sin, Joel smilingly said, “I’m not going to bash those people. I’m not going to be against those people. They’re good people.”

So by contrast, Apostle Jude is “bashing people” when he said:

Jude 1:14-16 “And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men’s persons in admiration because of advantage.”

Joel’s wife recently said to Piers Morgan. “It’s the people that we’re after. We’re not trying to judge their sin. We want to encourage them and love them. You’re only going to win people by reaching out to them.”

Isn’t that so awesome! They are all about the people! They want you and I be accepted without having to discuss anything like repentance or righteousness. These are “judgmental” subjects that we just don’t need.

These modern day ministry giants have gone on national television to essentially correct Apostles Peter, John, and Paul to say … they are wrong … if you listen to Joel Osteen. So many across the nation are so proud of this Pastor and his courage in confronting the church fathers!

According to Joel Osteen, Apostle Paul erroneously stated to the Corinthians …

1 Corinthians 6:8-10 “Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

In saying this, according to Joel Osteen, Apostle Paul is being “exclusionary” and should be rebuked and corrected. He is obviously wrong and should never have said these things to the Corinthian church.

Corinth was known for its sexual openness and promiscuity so for Paul to “condemn” all these “good people” was completely out of order and he needs to be rebuked.

When Paul wrote to the Romans he also was in complete error in stating the following in the first chapter of his letter, according to Joel Osteen.

“And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”

According to Joel Osteen, Paul was absolutely incorrect and to state that being a homosexual is a sin is being “judgmental” and should not be tolerated. It is just wrong according to Joel Osteen. Many people agree with Joel Osteen today and so, Apostle Paul is apparently misguided and incorrect in his letter.

Joel goes on to point out the additional errors in the words Apostle Paul wrote.

“Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.” Paul went on to write in the first chapter of Romans, which according to the words of Joel Osteen, he is deeply misguided and mistaken.

Apostle Paul should repent for saying such things according to Joel Osteen. A growing number of people in America agree with Joel that Apostle Paul should be rebuked for ever saying such things because Paul isn’t accepting of people like Joel Osteen is.

Equally misguided and incorrect according to Joel Osteen is Paul’s words to the Galatian church. In his writings, Apostle Paul made stunning comments that were clearly exclusionary statements concerning the Kingdom and those whom are accepted, and in so doing has made grave error according to Joel Osteen.

See if you can detect the absolutely false statements that Apostle Paul made to the Galatian church according to the stated doctrine of Joel Osteen.

Galatians 5:19-21 “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

You can clearly see what has Joel Osteen so unhappy that he’s gone on national television to correct this! It is this type of rhetoric, according to Joel Osteen, that is completely false and misrepresents the God he serves.

Joel Osteen’s God loves everybody and there are no exclusions because then, according to Joel, “none of us would be saved.” So again, Apostle Paul was completely incorrect and should never have written such harsh and insensitive words to the Galatian church according to Joel.

I imagine Joel Osteen would say “shame on Apostle Paul for ever writing such hateful words!”

Now, not only is Joel out to correct the misguided Apostle Paul, but Apostle Peter was also brought into serious question for clearly being exclusionary when he wrote these words.

1 Peter 1:14-16 “As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.”

According to the doctrine Joel Osteen has now shared with us all as “his message,” being clearly more evolved and enlightened than the archaic Apostle Peter, no one can be holy. We are left to conclude that Peter is misguided and is being judgmental. What a terrible yoke and condemnation Apostle Peter is trying to put on the good people he is writing to.

Additionally, Apostle Peter goes on to say things that are completely against the Lakewood Church Pastor’s God when he stated the following.

2 Peter 2:6-8 “And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)”

According to Joel Osteen’s public comments, one could conclude that Apostle Peter was in complete error and deceived when he wrote such things. What a terrible condemnation. He clearly did not know the doctrine that Joel Osteen preaches or he would never have said such awful and critical things.

Joel Osteen indirectly implies (subtly) that these apostles were false and were critical and judgmental and should NOT be listened to in America today. We all need to listen instead to Joel Osteen and Oprah Winfrey.

Now Apostle John made even greater errors if the benchmark is Joel Osteen’s “message” when he stated some of the thing that he wrote which, according to Joel Osteen, is just plain and simply not true.

It takes a lot of courage for Joel to stand against these writings but he believes strongly in his “uplifting and encouraging” doctrine that does not endorse such harsh and judgmental statements as written by these ancient Apostles.

We should all pray for Joel Osteen because he needs our prayers if he’s going to continue to champion the cause of those oppressed and condemned by the writings and statements of Apostles like Paul, Peter and John.

Revelation 21:8 “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

You see, according to Joel Osteen in a recent interview, “God doesn’t see any sin as worse than another” and all are going to heaven. Apparently in Joel Osteen’s bible, he has redacted the unpardonable sin. So if you’re a follower of Joel Osteen’s then this statement by Apostle John must seem just plain wrong.

Apostle John doesn’t know what he’s talking about and we need to listen to the wisdom of Joel Osteen. Apostle John clearly was in error and should be rebuked for suggesting that people who tell lies are going to have their part in the lake of fire.

What was Apostle John thinking writing such judgmental things???

That’s a terrible thing to say and no one, certainly not Apostle John, should be allowed to say such things. As Joel says, “there’s enough condemnation in the world” and we don’t need anymore.

Additionally, in his letter, Apostle John says things like …

1 John 3:8-10 “He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.”

Now according to Joel Osteen and the thousands that agree with his “message,” this entire passage should be removed from the pages of the bible and no one should be saying such things. In fact, Joel goes on to share that it is this exact kind of preaching that will hinder “church growth.”

Apostles Paul, Peter, and John listen up. Joel Osteen rebukes you all.

Now listen, Joel Osteen and his ministry in Houston are all about people. He is standing up for your rights! He is taking a REALLY BIG RISK because … if he’s wrong, and Apostle Paul is right … then he stands to be cursed! So he needs your support in prayer NOW!

Galatians 1:9 “As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”

Instead, you all need to listen to his message of universal acceptance and lawless living without any condemnation so we can all “lift our spirits” and be “encouraging and loving” to all people no matter what lifestyle or choices they make. After all, according to Joel, God loves us all and everyone is going to heaven so lighten up!

There is no exclusive path to the Kingdom. According to Joel Osteen, we need to hear this message because it’s the right message and anyone that says that there is an exclusive path to God is wrong.

Joel would know, look at the size of his church! He is clearly telling you the truth more than anyone in history.

John 14:6 “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

Exactly how much error is too much?


The quotes are taken right from what Joel himself has spoken. He positions himself on his own without being told how to answer. On the one hand he wants to appease his Christian followers by saying “the bible says” but on the other he clearly fellowships with darkness and facilitates those whom deny the power thereof.

2 Timothy 3:1-7 “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”

TOPICS: Ecumenism; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: apostacy; apostles; bible; evangelists; homosexualagenda; john; osteen; pastors; paul; peter; religiousleft; sin; theology; unitarianism; ybpdln
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To: BookaT

This was not to say who is perfect or who is not, but when a person decides that taking the Word out of the Word is indeed correct, then it is time for him to examine their lives and get right w/ God. No one is perfect, but as Christians, we are called to be like Jesus..Christ like to be exact. We are also called to reach out to people and bring as many to God as we can.

81 posted on 08/29/2013 8:03:27 AM PDT by Kritter0412
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To: .45 Long Colt

False? Not at all.

82 posted on 08/29/2013 2:31:04 PM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: Sopater
theology credentials mean nothing to me.

IOW, you know more about it than people who have devoted their lives to studying it? There is no credible evidence to support your position. It is simply a statement of blind faith. We know for a fact that there have been significant alterations, as well as scribal errors. We also know factually and conclusively that much of what was written is pseudepigraphic. The history of it is questionable, at best. But it isn't a work of history -- it's a work of inspiration, moral philosophy, and theology. It's more poetry than history. Nothing wrong with that. Your theologians are simply ignoring this evidence.

83 posted on 08/29/2013 2:36:17 PM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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I wish I had time to write a detailed response because it’s too important a topic to ignore. For now all I will say is that Osteen’s gospel isn’t the gospel. He tempts people to pursue all the things of the world lost people already want in their flesh. What he and his ilk do is an abomination, utter wickedness.

1 John 2:15-16

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

84 posted on 08/29/2013 3:29:49 PM PDT by .45 Long Colt
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There is no credible evidence to support your position. It is simply a statement of blind faith.

Evidently, I share my "blind faith" in the absense of credible evidence with many true biblical scholars such as: There are also countless books written by conservative Christians that outline the massive amounts of evidence for the authority of the gospels inculding the link I provided to the Fundamentals of the Christian Faith that thoroughly dismantles "higher criticism"... so to call my adherance to the authority of the gospels "blind faith" is a straw-man argument that is only intended to influence the uninformed... a typical liberal strategy that fails to work on those who have done some homework.
85 posted on 08/29/2013 3:34:08 PM PDT by Sopater (Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? - Matthew 20:15a)
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By Providence, today’s “Renewing Your Mind” broadcast is

“Becoming a Better You”

The alternative gospel of Joel Osteen and prosperity preachers forgoes the cross and advises us to merely “do our best.” At its heart, this is pure legalism of the worst variety. John MacArthur examines the alternative gospel of these preachers and explains why legalism-lite is still legalism.

From the series: Christless Christianity: 2010 West Coast Conference

Here is a short clip of John MacArthur on Osteen:

86 posted on 08/29/2013 3:48:01 PM PDT by .45 Long Colt
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To: Sopater
Tough call on Osteen but I view him as nothing more than a multi-millionaire motivational speaker.........

Would I attend a Sunday "seminar"? nope.........

87 posted on 08/29/2013 3:48:40 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (')
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To: .45 Long Colt

Joel Osteen and others tell you to “live your best life”, which is very similar to “becoming a better you.”

One is not an authority merely because you agree with him.

88 posted on 08/30/2013 8:19:15 AM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: Sopater

“Radical fringe”? Ridiculous. These are well-respected, well-established scholars. (What that tells me is that Mr. Boyd can’t refute them, so he needs to try to marginalize them.)

These are scholars with many books, classes, much research, and many of whom have examined actual manuscripts. They’re in an excellent position to know what they’re talking about. They use the rules of evidence in support of what they say. Your scholars don’t seem to be doing that.

There is little evidence to support what you call “the authority of the gospels.” It’s based on nothing but faith.

89 posted on 08/30/2013 8:24:03 AM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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Mr. Boyd can’t refute them, so he needs to try to marginalize them.

Mr. Boyd refutes them here, and again, he is not alone.

There is little evidence to support what you call “the authority of the gospels.”

There is plenty of evidence. Some, who hope that there is some other way to obtain Salvation besides faith in Jesus, as He is recorded in the Bible, choose to ignore it. That's nothing new.
90 posted on 08/30/2013 9:00:16 AM PDT by Sopater (Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? - Matthew 20:15a)
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So you defend his heresies?

91 posted on 08/30/2013 9:31:33 AM PDT by .45 Long Colt
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To: Sopater

The pastor of the church we attended in Florida would call folks like Joel Osteen the “Easy Life Pastors”...he didn’t mean it in a complimentary manner, either.

92 posted on 09/23/2013 11:33:44 AM PDT by JRios1968 (I'm guttery and trashy, with a hint of lemon. - Laz)
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To: Sopater
Joel Osteen Rebukes Apostles Paul, Peter, and John

He left out George and Ringo.

93 posted on 09/23/2013 11:34:38 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: JRios1968

We call them “limp-wristed”.

94 posted on 09/23/2013 11:46:34 AM PDT by Sopater (Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? - Matthew 20:15a)
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To: dfwgator

Give him time. He’s working his way through the big ones right now. Wait ‘til he finds out Led isn’t a person.

95 posted on 09/23/2013 11:47:54 AM PDT by smvoice (The 2 greatest days of your life: the day you're born. And the day you discover why.)
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To: Sopater
This is a misrepresentation of Osteen.

It is very unlikely that Osteen takes a “universalist” stand as claimed by the author. Osteen might say that all people sin; that regardless of the “badness” of the sin or a person’s past, anyone can come to God through Jesus Christ and be forgiven for their sin, even homosexuals. And, that he prefers an approach that emphasizes the love of God, not one that lambasts people for their sinfulness, etc.

The scriptures quoted are accurate; the assumptions attributed to Osteen are not. Making up fallacious arguments, attributing the arguments to Osteen, then attacking the fallacious arguments = poor logic, poor journalism. Unfortunate.

96 posted on 09/23/2013 2:22:59 PM PDT by Onetwofree (Misrepresentation)
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To: Onetwofree
This is a misrepresentation of Osteen. It is very unlikely that Osteen takes a “universalist” stand as claimed by the author. Osteen might say that all people sin; that regardless of the “badness” of the sin or a person’s past, anyone can come to God through Jesus Christ and be forgiven for their sin, even homosexuals. And, that he prefers an approach that emphasizes the love of God, not one that lambasts people for their sinfulness, etc.

Unlikely, but not inaccurate:

LARRY KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?
JOEL OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.
-- Larry King Live, June 20, 2005
See also:
Does Joel Osteen Not Know, or Does He Not Care? [On Mormonism]
Joel Osteen and Why Theology Matters, Again
For Joel Osteen, Theology is Optional
Joel Osteen and “Joel-Likeness”
Faith & The Gospel [Michael Horton Takes On Osteen With Link To 60 Minutes Clip of Horton)

Oh, and welcome to FR!

Since Sep 23, 2013

97 posted on 09/23/2013 2:56:34 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Just a common, ordinary, simple savior of America's destiny.)
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To: Sopater

I have read this article carefully and listened to some controversial interviews of Pastor Joel Osteen, but did not see where he rebuked Apostles Paul, Peter and John. I acknowledge that Pastor Osteen has had some doctrinal errors in his presentations in television interviews that are inexcusable; however, I do not support such write up against him that is hateful and destructive. The caption of this article is provocative and is purely the product of the imaginative thoughts of the writer. I have listened to Pastor Osteen minister on several occasions and have been blessed by his ministry. I know that there are several hundred of others that have been encouraged, comforted, restored and refreshed by his ministry worldwide. However, I do not agree with some statements he has made on some TV interviews. He came back to retrieve some of them, but he did not retrieve some of the recent statements. Some of them were shocking to me, but my first response was not to condemn him, but pray for him. I also believe that those Christian leaders who have access to him should correct him and probably rebuke him too; but no one should attempt to destroy him or his ministry. Trying to do that or incite people against him will be doing more harm to the Body of Christ than the wrong the Pastor did in the first place. Most of us are not perfect. Someone can miss it; but it is for those who know better to correct or rebuke him with the spirit of love. Even Apostle Peter missed it by distancing himself from Gentile Christians in Antioch when Believers from Jerusalem visited, and Apostle Paul had to rebuke him (Galatians 2:11-14). He did not do it to destroy him, but to correct him. Their love for one another was not lost because of that experience and that was why Peter had beautiful things later to say about the ministry of Paul (2 Peter 3:15). I believe that we should be careful when we notice that fellow Believers are missing the way. We should do our best to correct them and lead them back to the way and not destroy them. Those who feel that some Pastors have watered down the message should endeavor to preach stronger message, but no one should tear down the Body because he believes people are not preaching strong message. It should grieve each of us that the standards that Christ set, which the Apostles handed down to us are being watered down, but that is the very reason to groan and cry to God for the Church and resist the Old Serpent who is deceiving and destroying the Body. We should not act as Satan’s hatchet men by striking the last blow to slay our fallen solders.

98 posted on 09/23/2013 8:05:01 PM PDT by Oguazi
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To: MamaB

I think he has an awesome message. He is not lying ..he gives the same messages as most philosophers and speakers.

99 posted on 09/23/2013 8:44:34 PM PDT by Southerngal70
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To: TexasCajun

you got him all wrong. He isnt about money and fame. he is about passing on inspiration. Who are you people to judge anyway? I think the bible has some verses on judging others

100 posted on 09/23/2013 8:44:34 PM PDT by Southerngal70
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