Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Questions for “Bible Christians” that they can’t answer - Part 1
Catholic Convert ^ | October 25, 2013 | David Palm and Steve Ray

Posted on 10/26/2013 6:56:10 AM PDT by NYer

There are 38 questions + a few bonus questions. I have split them into two separate posts of 20 and 18 + bonus questions. Are you ready?

1. Where did Jesus give instructions that the Christian faith should be based exclusively on a book?

2. Other than the specific command to John to pen the Revelation, where did Jesus tell His apostles to write anything down and compile it into an authoritative book?

3. Where in the New Testament do the apostles tell future generations that the Christian faith will be based solely on a book?

4. Some Protestants claim that Jesus condemned all oral tradition (e.g., Matt 15:3, 6; Mark 7:813). If so, why does He bind His listeners to oral tradition by telling them to obey the scribes and Pharisees when they “sit on Moses’ seat” (Matt 23:2)?

5. Some Protestants claim that St. Paul condemned all oral tradition (Col 2:8). If so, why does he tell the Thessalonians to “stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter” (2 Thes 2:15) and praises the Corinthians because they “hold firmly to the traditions” (1 Cor 11:2)?

(And why does the Protestant NIV change the word “tradition” to “teaching”?)

6. If the authors of the New Testament believed in sola Scriptura, why did they sometimes draw on oral Tradition as authoritative and as God’s Word (Matt 2:23; 23:2; 1 Cor 10:4; 1 Pet 3:19; Jude 9, 14 15)?

7. Where in the Bible is God’s Word restricted only to what is written down?

8. How do we know who wrote the books that we call Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Hebrews, and 1, 2, and 3 John?

9. On what authority, or on what principle, would we accept as Scripture books that we know were not written by one of the twelve apostles?

10. Where in the Bible do we find an inspired and infallible list of books that should belong in the Bible? (e.g., Is the Bible’s Table of Contents inspired?)

11. How do we know, from the Bible alone, that the individual books of the New Testament are inspired, even when they make no claim to be inspired?

12. How do we know, from the Bible alone, that the letters of St. Paul, who wrote to first- century congregations and individuals, are meant to be read by us as Scripture 2000 years later?

13. Where does the Bible claim to be the sole authority for Christians in matters of faith and morals?

14. Most of the books of the New Testament were written to address very specific problems in the early Church, and none of them are a systematic presentation of Christian faith and theology. On what biblical basis do Protestants think that everything that the apostles taught is captured in the New Testament writings?

15. If the books of the New Testament are “self-authenticating” through the ministry of the Holy Spirit to each individual, then why was there confusion in the early Church over which books were inspired, with some books being rejected by the majority?

16. If the meaning of the Bible is so clear—so easily interpreted—and if the Holy Spirit leads every Christian to interpret it for themselves, then why are there over 33,000 Protestant denominations, and millions of individual Protestants, all interpreting the Bible differently?

17. Who may authoritatively arbitrate between Christians who claim to be led by the Holy Spirit into mutually contradictory interpretations of the Bible?

18. Since each Protestant must admit that his or her interpretation is fallible, how can any Protestant in good conscience call anything heresy or bind another Christian to a particular belief?

19. Protestants usually claim that they all agree “on the important things.” Who is able to decide authoritatively what is important in the Christian faith and what is not?

20. How did the early Church evangelize and overthrow the Roman Empire, survive and prosper almost 350 years, without knowing for sure which books belong in the canon of Scripture?


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: antiprotestantrant; bible; romancatholicism; sectarianturmoil
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 241-255 next last
To: Jim Noble

Well the good news is that:

1) I am not making demands of god but rather showing for all to see the sophistry of man’s arguments.

2) God has ALREADY provided a recording of Jesus’s and the Apostles oral teaching by recording them in scripture.


61 posted on 10/26/2013 9:01:29 AM PDT by taxcontrol
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: CyberAnt

bump


62 posted on 10/26/2013 9:03:27 AM PDT by GeronL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Answer to Bible+(any fanciful whim to nullify the Bible) Christians with a followup question:

>>1) Where did Jesus give instructions the Christian faith should be based exclusively on a book?

The root word for scripture is “script” and it necessarily implies something written. Since 2Tim3:16 says “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable...,” and John20:31 says “These things are written that you may believe, that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name” seems like a pretty airtight case.

There is no source of revelation from a God, who is an unapproachable light, other than what He chose to reveal himself. Unmoored from that sure certainty, the Bible+___ christians descend into philosophy and mystical miasma and try to “know the mind” of God beyond what He chose to reveal.

That is the theological equivalent of a puppy chasing its own tail.

Followup Question: Where did Jesus tell the pope to wear a frock?

>>2. Other than the specific command to John to pen the Revelation, where did Jesus tell his apostles to write anything down and compile it into an authoritative book?

Question has the same tenor as “other than the ending Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?”

We know that the purity of doctrine was not preserved always and everywhere through the tradition by the living voice but repeatedly corrupted and adulterated. Because “new” and “special” revelations might not restore pure doctrine, God instructed Moses that His doctrine should be comprehended in writing.

God wrote the Decalog (10 commandments) Himself with “His finger” and commanded the writings be put into the ark and be read before all Israel....Deut 31:10-26.

For good measure, God adds in Rev22:18, “I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if ANYONE adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book and if ANYONE takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of the life and in the holy city.....”{Emphasis mine}

Followup Question: Why did the Church run out Gnostics as heretics who claimed they had special knowledge/revelation apart from scripture?

>>3. Where in the New Testament do the apostles tell future generations that the Christian faith will be based solely on a book?

First, this “[a] book” is God-breathed and unlike any other. Next, look at John 20:31. Next, Paul chastises Galatians for falling away from the true gospel and writes that in an epistle. He binds himself to the point of anathemizing himself if he preached a different gospel.

Hypothetically, if Paul began to teach a heresy (arrogate himself to be a pope-type figure to fashion new doctrine willy-nilly based on Aristotle or Scholastics or others), it would have been Paul’s letter to Galatians that would have impeached his pretensions.

In theological disputes with the Jews on anything they said, the Roman church insisted that Jewish arguments must be examined and measured according to the norm of this scripture, in order that whatever agrees with it may be approved and whatever is strange or not in agreement disapproved.

What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

The Reformers’ position was always exactly that; not the “book only” caricature of an argument.

>>4. Some Protestants claim that Jesus condemned all oral traditions....

The erswhile first pope writes in 1Peter1:16-18, “You were ransomed from the futile ways which you inherited from the tradition of your fathers not with gold or silver but with the precious blood of the Lamb without blemish, Christ; therefore be holy in all your conduct, AS IT IS WRITTEN.” {emphasis added by me}.

The Jews will no more concede that their traditions were corrupted anymore than Rome will concede that their traditions were received from apostles in a broken succession from bishop to bishop.

The Talmudist embellish by claiming Moses received from God not only what he wrote but also a mystical and secret exposition of the law, which he neither wrote nor wanted written but handed down orally and delivered to posterity from hand to hand.

As the prophet wrote in Ecclesiastes1:9, “....there is nothing new under the sun.”


63 posted on 10/26/2013 9:16:58 AM PDT by SolaSolaSola
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jim Noble

Thus, we conclude to include arsenic as well into one’s diet?


64 posted on 10/26/2013 9:18:36 AM PDT by SolaSolaSola
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: Jim Noble

>>Why don’t you ask Jesus to turn a stone into bread for you....

I don’t need to. Satan already did. Jesus had this nasty habit of saying, “it is written......”

>>You don’t make demands of God, He makes demands of you.

Its precisely because you can’t fulfill the demands God makes of you, Jesus had to die even though he fulfilled on your behalf.

>>If you’re still in the place where you need a tape.....

Isn’t the unbroken succession of oral tradition from apostles to bishop to bishop, a substitute kid’s game of telephone if not a secret “tape recording”?


65 posted on 10/26/2013 9:19:34 AM PDT by SolaSolaSola
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: impimp; jsanders2001
Steve Ray is not an attorney.
66 posted on 10/26/2013 9:24:31 AM PDT by BlueDragon (Perfect Love cast out all fear...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: DungeonMaster

Um, no. It would be more like preferring the person of Jesus over the book written about Him. You might really rely upon the book, love it and be very glad it was written, and draw from it daily, but you know that Jesus the person is more than the narrative of Jesus.

Hey, at least Christians of every stripe are on a better footing than the muslims, who believe that their actual, physical Book is holy— the pages, the glue, etc., instead of looking higher.


67 posted on 10/26/2013 9:29:35 AM PDT by married21 ( As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: 50sDad
The Foundation of the church is the Trinity

Where is this word, "trinity," in the Bible? If its not in the Bible, why do you believe it?

68 posted on 10/26/2013 9:31:17 AM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: Brian Kopp DPM
[...] is the whole idea that the early Apostolic Church fell into error. If it did, Christ lied when He said He would send the Holy Spirit to lead His Church to all Truth and that the gates of Hell would not prevail. If the Apostolic Churches (Orthodox and Catholic) are completely wrong, we all believe in vain, because Christ would have been a liar.

only if your church IS THE Church, which it necessarily cannot be - Follow Yeshua DO as Yeshua did/does, and follow not after the traditions of men.

69 posted on 10/26/2013 9:43:07 AM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: married21
Hey, at least Christians of every stripe are on a better footing than the muslims, who believe that their actual, physical Book is holy— the pages, the glue, etc., instead of looking higher.

So very true. I often loathe Mormon beliefs but even they are infinitely better that muslims.

70 posted on 10/26/2013 9:45:00 AM PDT by DungeonMaster
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: GreyFriar
The Roman Catholic Church has kept the lineal knowledge and studied the “Doctors of the Church”

RIIIIGHT... following the traditions of men.

71 posted on 10/26/2013 9:46:49 AM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: GeronL
"Read the Bible, Jesus and the Apostles also believed scripture was the answer, not some human authority."

I'll be darned if I can see how you took my comment to mean humans had more authority than scripture. I thought I made it clear it was the other way around...

72 posted on 10/26/2013 9:59:44 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers

I was agreeing with you


73 posted on 10/26/2013 10:03:20 AM PDT by GeronL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: taxcontrol

2 Thessalonians 2:15
John 21:25
Your post is wrong.


74 posted on 10/26/2013 10:03:41 AM PDT by impimp
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Excellent!


75 posted on 10/26/2013 10:04:38 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

Comment #76 Removed by Moderator

To: GreyFriar

Very good and true post.


77 posted on 10/26/2013 10:20:16 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: 50sDad
ROTFLMAO

You, David Koresh, and Joseph Smith, all have the same answer.

The answer that boils down to Self and Self Alone

78 posted on 10/26/2013 10:22:08 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Driabrin; NYer

**We trust the written word because it does not change over time**

Are you sure about that?

How did Luther change the Bible?


79 posted on 10/26/2013 10:22:23 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: roamer_1
only if your church IS THE Church

Scripture says Christ built a Church. Despite fanciful fictional claims to the contrary, only the Catholic and Orthodox Churches can possibly be traced back to the Church scripture says Christ built. If you say that Church fell into error, you make of Christ an impotent liar.

80 posted on 10/26/2013 10:23:58 AM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 241-255 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson