Posted on 12/04/2013 2:17:07 PM PST by markomalley
Today is the 50th anniversary of Sacrosanctum Concilium.
What great fruits the liturgical reforms have produced! Jammed churches, long confession lines, full schools, lots of weddings and baptisms, convents bursting, seminaries churning out priests as fast as they can be ordained .
Back in 1967 when the reformers were creating the Novus Ordo, an experimental Missa Normativa was celebrated for a groups of cardinals and bishops. After this Mass, Card. Heenan of Westminster remarked to the Synod of Bishops in Rome:
At home, it is not only women and children but also fathers of families and young men who come regularly to Mass. If we were to offer them the kind of ceremony we saw yesterday we would soon be left with a congregation of women and children.
There is a good post at Cream City Catholic, which originates in Milwaukee, WI. He tackles the question of why fewer men go to Mass than women.
This article, appearing in The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, discusses various efforts being made by Milwaukee-area churches (Catholic and non-Catholic) to attract men back to the pews. [Reason #12 for SUMMORUM PONTIFICUM!!] The concern is that men are, for some mysterious reason, [Not mysterious to me.] checking out from liturgy or other Christian services.
[...]
According to a statistic presented in the article, the male/female discrepancy is especially felt in the Catholic Church, where 64% of parish life is comprised of women.
So why are the guys MIA?
This is another one of those instances within our local Church where you have a lot of people who subscribe to the conventional wisdom scratching their heads and asking Why? Why? Why? when the answer is not particularly elusive. This really isnt a surprise to me, or to many others. I recall attending Mass in Rome at a local parish and, unbeknownst to me when I entered, it was a Childrens Mass. Start to finish, the liturgy was replete with childish, Sesame Street-styled songs and embarrassing hand motions. As I scanned the pews, only two groups of people were participating: the small children, and the women, especially the older women. The men, from young to old, were standing there, stone-faced, arms crossed, totally disengaged. It was painful. The music and everything else was thoroughly emasculating. No self-respecting man would participate in that. And they didnt. If this is what is meant by active participation on the part of the laity, I and lots of guys, want nothing to do with it. Run for the hills.
This phenomenon has been replicated ad nauseam in the United States as well.
Authentic masculinity has been knee-capped in our Church. [OORAH!] This trend is conspicuously apparent in our liturgical life, as any manifestation of authentic masculinity is attacked as boorish male chauvinism, old manifestations of discrimination and oppression from a Church that is unfairly dominated by an all-male hierarchy. (The article cites an example of a parish in the Diocese of Madison where the pastor insisted on only boys serving as acolytes. Predictably, he received tons of criticism as a result. Fortunately, Bishop Morlino backed up his priest.) [Do I hear an "Amen!"?] Whats more, many of the liturgical planning committees have been taken over by women. The embellishments of many church buildings often look like a Jo-Ann Fabric was detonated inside. Pastel ribbons, crafts, baskets, streamers, quilts BOOM!
What Ive often referred to as the Oprahfication of our Church has had a direct effect on the number of men who opt out of liturgy. Much of our Church culture has imbibed a pandering, touchy-feely, soft sofa approach to dealing with real challenges, and guys dont dig that. Coupled with a de-emphasis on the Sacramental life, the Eucharist in particular, many men simply see no point in attending Mass if all theyre getting is meaningless psychobabble and Stuart Smalley motivational talks.
[...]
Dead on.
Vast swathes of the Church have been wussified. Part of this is internal to the Church. Part of this comes from the decades long war on boys and men.
I think a huge part of this comes from the fact that our sacred liturgical worship is massively screwed up.
http://abcnews.go.com/images/PollingUnit/875a2ChurchAttendance.pdf
It shows weekly church attendance at 44% for women, and 32% for men. I would speculate women have outnumbered men at services for the last century at least.
Masculinity is not appreciated by the modern church, that is why most men don’t go.
“are you going to take advice about being a dad from a guy who never has been one? “
Pointless distinction. Clergy minister to people. What does being a dad or an auto mechanic for that matter have to do with the operators understanding of human fault or foible? The Human Heart does not differ across gender or occupation. A dad is just a man, he is not rare or special in any way (except perhaps to his kid).
In the matter of homos I wouldn’t listen to a word any sexual deviate had to say. A perverted heart is no source of example or instruction.
I go to church as a male - I don't want to go in Drag.
That headline is Stupid...it sounds like you should go to church DRESSED as a women!!
Most logical answer so far.
I don’t get it. Your story, I mean.
How do you stand it?
Both of you?
; )
let’s just part ways, you aren’t geting my point.
I don’t know. Why do you think that there were?
:)
From Wikipedia:
The Episcopal Church (TEC) is part of the worldwide Anglican Communion. It is divided into nine provinces and has dioceses in the U.S., Taiwan, Micronesia, the Caribbean, Central and South America, as well as the Convocation of Episcopal Churches in Europe and the Navajoland Area Mission.
The Episcopal Church describes itself as being “Protestant, yet Catholic”. In 2010, it had 2,125,012 baptized members, 1,951,907 of them in the U.S., making it the nation’s 14th largest denomination. The church is also known as the Protestant Episcopal Church in the United States of America (PECUSA or ECUSA).
Now that's funny. When was the last time you attended, 1962?
.
while some idiot blowhard with no real world experience wants to lecture you on how the world turns?
Wrong again. Some genuinely sincere guy explains how love is good. So we should love.
There are choices, try a Byzantine Catholic Liturgy, pure worship and praise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlNbIGW2yeo
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=byzantine+catholic+divine+liturgy&sm=12
If he has heard from hundreds or even thousands of dads and children concerning their problems in their relationships, he might know a thing or two about the subject. On the other hand, a man can be a father and still give crappy advice, especially if he is a crappy father.
I generally agree with you
But my southern baptist preacher talks about much more than love
Behavior
Responsibility
Old school
Casual praise oriented church
*******************************
Agreed. Experience is no guarantee of wisdom.
Which is why I show up.
BTW, I came to a realization a while back that has brought a certain peace to me. When I go to mass and see a 50-year-old man in shorts, wrinkled t-shirt, and flip flops, when I hear the crap music the music minister selects to excrete, when I hear the pointless, meatless homily, I remind myself that these folks actually don't know any better. This is the best they know how to do.
The truth is, our society has become developmentally disabled.
“in the case of some denominations, women pastors, can’t relate and don’t have the connection to God through them.”
That has been my experience, so far. That reminds me of a quote I read by Samuel Johnson when I was a teenager and have gotten into trouble quoting: “Watching a woman preach is like watching a dog walk on his hind legs; you aren’t surprised he can’t do it well, you are surprised he can do it at all.”
We need more priests like this one. Heck, I’m a woman, and I can’t stand all the chickification going on at (most) churches.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1cog—Pj1I
Regards,
More women have always went to church than men. A lot of men think they have it all figured out and they don’t “need no stinkin’ church/pastor” telling them what to do.
A REAL MAN goes to church and prays with his children and sets the Christian example. And since he’s the leader of the household he does not leave it up to his wife. Feminized wimps do that.
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