Posted on 03/08/2014 10:06:40 PM PST by NKP_Vet
The following outline shows that Jesus intended to create a holy, visible Church; complete with a prime minister, a hierarchy, binding authority, and perpetuity—the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
It is important for Protestants to understand some basic facts. Contrary to the modern belief that the Bible is a “blueprint” or “textbook” which explains how a church should be structured, it is a product of the Catholic Church—a compilation of writings that reflect a structure that was already present. As such, the “Bible alone” has no reason to provide fine details of proper ecclesiology; however, proper ecclesiology is detectable. Shortly after Jesus’ resurrection, the Catholic Church wrote lots of letters. The Catholic Church discerned which of those letters were inspired. By the end of the fourth century (Councils of Hippo A.D. 393 and Carthage A.D. 397) the Catholic Church finalized the “table of contents” of the Scriptures and called the entire body of writing “the Bible”. In other words, the Bible would not even exist if the popes and the hierarchy did not exist.
(Excerpt) Read more at thechurchofchristiscatholic.com ...
“I see a picture of the Pope looking at a green book. Not saying he didn’t kiss whatever book it is, and if he, and that book was the Koran, I accept his reasoning.”
Oh, it doesn’t matter to me whether he kissed the Satanic Verses or not. You denied that he did. I simply provided a Catholic Priest link that says he did. Apparently, you were simply wrong. It happens.
“I don’t presume to know more than this towering intellect, who served 26 years as Pope, spoke 8 languages and devoted his entire life to Jesus Christ.”
I would never have done it as a follower of Christ, but it was his call. What he did, he did.
“The same can not be said for the majority of Catholic-haters on FR.”
I haven’t met a FReeper yet who “hates catholics.” Would you list 8 or 10 and some links where their hate of “catholics” was posted please?
“In their small minds all popes are the anti-Christ and all Catholics are are on a fast train to hell.”
Really? You know no one here speaks multiple languages? You know noone here devoted their life to Christ?You can read their minds? You’ve measured them to know they are small? You are either omniscient, or you’re making that up. Which? I’m doubting you know this.
This reminds me of an incident which occurred not long after i started reading scripture.
A pastor which i had been introduced to at the Church i was going to came to visit, his wife was with him and he introduced her as a pastor also.
Out of pure innocence or ignorance i am not sure which i exclaimed : but i thought the Bible tells us that a woman is not supposed to preach:.
She thought i was challenging her which i was not and it made her mad, she said i don,t care what the Bible says, god told me to preach anyway.
Yes the Catholic Church did have a lot to do with preserving the scripture and actually making them into a book.
Many individuals carried the gospel into the world because there were many believers who God chose to do that very thing.
It is revealed by history however that as a unit the Church was much of the time contending for power with the secular powers.
I believe any one can read the history of the church and the Governments they upheld in connection with the Indians in both of the America,s.
Yes the Church as a unit did a lot to preserve the scriptures, but would they have been so careful in that task if they had of realized that some day even a boy from across the tracks could read those scriptures?
I have no doubt they would have left some things out.
Simple basic truth..
Rule #2. If it is true than he was not speaking "officially."
Rule #3. We decide what is official enough (CCC has Muslims adoring the same God as RCs, so use another catechism).
But this is also part of the church they defend, exampling how the official teaching can be interpreted practically (which itself will be interpreted by those who deplre private interpretation) : Cardinal Dolan says "Bravo!" (to Gay Football Player Michael Sam )
Sorry, rev 17:1 to 18:4
That's funny; it doesn't SMELL like Corinthian Leather...
But that is just your opinion. An even more conservative and knowledgeable RC opines PJ2 :
1. Invited pagans to pray to their false gods.
2. Looked the other way while his clerics raped his children, and ordained faggots to say his Masses
3. Shuffled pedophiles and homosexuals from parish to parish, even giving them safe haven at the Vatican.
4. Subjected those Catholic who dare protest to droning quotes from Vatican I and Lumen Gentium about “submission”
5. Watched scantily clad women dance while Mass was being said.
6. Suggested that hell might not exist.
7. Suggested that the Jews still have their Old Covenant
8. Kissed the Koran
9. Made it appear as if God has given man universal salvation by using ambiguous language in official writings
10. Accepted the tenets of evolution.
11. Wrote a catechism that contained theological errors and ambiguities.
12. Changed the canonization laws: marriage laws, capital punishment laws, laws about women’s roles.
13. Went against the tradition by putting women in leadership positions and dispensing with head coverings.
14. Failed to excommunicate heretical bishops and priests who were spouting heresies.
15. Protected Bishop Marcinkus and his entourage of financial hoodlums in the Vatican.
16. Ignored the pleas of a bishop who was merely trying to preserve the tradition (Archbishop Levebre)
17. Exonerated Luther
18. Allowed the Luther‐Catholic Joint Declaration, signed by a high‐ranking Cardinal, to explicitly state that “man is justified by faith alone.”
19. Disobeyed the Fatima request to consecrate Russia.
(http://www.catholicintl.com/articles/Response%20to%20John%20Dejak%20of%20The%20Wanderer.pdf; http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2011/04/sungenis-alone.html)
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Blasphamy. Do you have one ounce of common decency. JP2 will go down in history as one of the greatest pope’s of all time. Please don’t send me to a protestant blog again.
If those are Robert Sungenis’ words about JP2 you need to provide a hell of a lot better proof. I don’t believe those are his words. Garbage from a anti-Catholic blog.
“JP2 will go down in history as one of the greatest pope’s of all time.”
That is far better than being on the Evil Pope List I’ve seen posted here...
[Noted that you did not refute a single item on the list]
See Post #130.
“Please don’t send me to a protestant blog again.”
How utterly degrading!!
Oh, I saw it and am quoting from it!
BTW, I am still waiting for you to post the list of “catholic hating freepers” and some links to their “hate”. Can you post those to prove your allegations in the post upthread??
***I don’t presume to know more than this towering intellect, who served 26 years as Pope, spoke 8 languages and devoted his entire life to Jesus Christ.***
Ahh, a little argumentum ab auctoritate to spice up our Lords Day evening.
So tell me, how does planting a big juicy one on the Koran serve Jesus?
Well, I'm convinced (that the author is an idiot)!
You have just reduced you own credibility even lower, as your response here is like that of a cultist who refuses to believe anything that impugns his object of allegiance.
The reality is that is was referenced to Sungenis' site,, http://www.catholicintl.com, but who evidently removed it, and to think Beggar All fabricated it is absurd. He is well known by RCAs, including Dave Armstrong who sometimes posts on his blog, and debates at Catholic Answers where they know him, and would be called out in a second for such fabrication.
Instead, he is who diligently seeks to material, esp. the out-of-context- quotes by Luther you are prone to uncritically cut and paste, some of which i just showed you today.
And if you knew much about Sungenis (or did some research) you would know that he is quite a traditionalist, and thus is at odds with JP2 and more moderate RCs, and which adversarial relationship other RCs testify to - if you will believe them.
Here is one from cathinfo.com itself, from JOHN DEJAK the one Sugensis is reproving in the material i posted: :
I thought of these things as I recently read some of the tendentious offerings of Robert Sungenis regarding the beatification of John Paul II. In what is a seeming crusade to stop the beatification of the late Pontiff, Sungenis seems to set himself up as the arbiter of Catholic orthodoxy and right judgment with regard to the last Pontificate and even the person of the Pope himself. With characteristic humility, he describes himself as a “ Jeremiah,” thus assigning himself the role of prophet to those of us whom he terms “papal idolaters.” His articles inThe Remnant and on his web site apparently are meant to be atour de forceof the supposed evils of John Paul II and his Pontificate. Indeed, the last few months have seen a plethora of commentary in The Remnant challenging the papal decision to beatify John Paul II. - http://www.cathinfo.com/index.php/The-Wanderer-Attacks-The-Remnant
But perhaps you think that is made up, so here is another RCA i am sure you know of Dave Armstrong (http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2011/04/robert-sungenis-embraces-radtradism-and.html), which contains quotes from certain posts by Sugenis, including some from very link that i provided, to "Papolatry is a Sin: A Response to John Dejak of The Wanderer" -- 18 April 2011):
I’m sorry to have to say this, but from all my knowledge and experience, I would have to say that the last few pontificates have been an almost total disaster for the Catholic Church, especially the pontificate of John Paul II....
Why can’t many people see this? Why are millions clamoring for his beatification? Our Scripture and Tradition answer that question quite poignantly. Scripture says that the time will come in which “God is sending them a deceiving power so that they may believe the lie” (2Th 2:11 NAB). God is not neutral when men depart from Him. This was also true in the Old Testament (cf. 1Kgs 22:23). God actually reinforces their apostasy by sending them “a deceiving power.”
Unfortunately, from what we know of the modernistic tendencies in the theology of Karol Wojtyla, it is not unimaginable that he did accept the contents of the Koran as another means to God. . . . It’s not often that a person overtly denies the essentials of the faith, (provided we are agreed on what those “essentials” are). John Paul II did not come out and say “I deny the existence of God” or “I deny that Christ was God and man,” or anything of that material nature. Instead, he couched his language so that the meaning could often go either way. . . . This is just one small example of the same kinds of problems in many statements from John Paul II (e.g., making ambiguous statements that could be interpreted such that all men will be saved or that humans may not be involved with hell; suggesting that the resurrection and return of Christ are merely symbolic; implying that Original Sin is not a fact; suggesting that non-Christians need not convert to Christianity). . . . the moral and doctrinal aberrations of John Paul II were far graver than most of the other bad popes. .
Not once in 26 years of speaking and writing did John Paul II tell these non-Christian adherents that they would be judged and sent to hell if they did not convert to Christianity. In fact, he suggested that hell may not even exist. That was “the faith” of John Paul II. . . . John Paul II was certainly a “great threat” but it wasn’t against the forces of evil and unbelief. More immorality and doctrinal confusion was unleashed in the pontificate of John Paul II than any other pope in history. . . . The reality is, John Paul II was one of the worst popes we’ve ever had.
This is simply more of the kind of material i provided, and whether you want to believe it or not, or disagree with Sungenis, it is a fact that you have a different opinion that another mass-going Catholic. And which opposition to JP2's sainthood" is shared by other TRCS as here: http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/Archives/2011-0515-ferrara-beatification.htm
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