Posted on 03/22/2014 1:35:03 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
“Babylon” was literally an ancient city (located a little southwest of present day Baghdad, Iraq), a broader kingdom/empire, and symbolically a descriptor/label for the wicked/the worldly of all generations in all places for those people who choose the things of this world over the things of God.
I’m with JTT. In it’s heyday, Babylon was a center of pagan worship as well as of government operating without consideration of God’s will. Therefore it represents the all those who fail to worship God in “spirit and truth”.
>>>“Babylon” was literally an ancient city (located a little southwest of present day Baghdad, Iraq), a broader kingdom/empire, and symbolically a descriptor/label for the wicked/the worldly of all generations in all places for those people who choose the things of this world over the things of God.<<<
I agree with most of that. It also appears Babylon the Great was old Jerusalem.
Philip
It can be reference to Jerusalem.
my 2 cents on the NEW “Babylon”
A. San Francisco
B. New York city-
C. Washington D. C.
D. L.A.
Detroit does not count- it is already destroyed
:)
>>>In it’s heyday, Babylon was a center of pagan worship as well as of government operating without consideration of God’s will. Therefore it represents the all those who fail to worship God in “spirit and truth”.<<<
That would include old Jerusalem, wouldn’t it?
Philip
Speaking of wicked, the following is what Flavius Josephus, an Orthodox Jewish Priest and historian, wrote about old Jerusalem in his book, Wars of the Jews:
"That neither did any other city ever suffer such miseries, nor did any age ever breed a generation more fruitful in wickedness than this was, from the beginning of the world." [Wars V.10.5]
Josephus was also a Jewish general, captured early in the war, and became an eye-witness. He personally believed the destruction caused by the Roman armies was God's judgement on Jerusalem because of it's wickedness.
Philip
I am convinced that the prophetic Babylon of the near future is also the City of Seven Hills, as Jesus states in Rev 17:9. Jerusalem never was the city that ruled the kings of the earth, Rev. 17:18. It is the home of the only church that is a sovereign nation, and with whom the major nations of the earth exchange ambassadors even today.
Some, if not many of those very nations would refuse to accept Israel’s declaration that Jerusalem is its national capital and would refuse to locate their embassies there. Indeed, they would happily vote to “internationalize” Jerusalem and send in “peace-keeping” soldiers if necessary to enforce their vote.
Nobody is talking about doing that to the sovereign nation of Vatican City.
Neither as the prophetic Babylon the Great is a business mecca of ‘merchants became rich selling her goods’, among other perverse things that are there(paraphrased,) from Revelations 18:1-9
Vatican City isn’t built on seven hills, and the hill it is built on wasn’t one of the seven hills of ancient Rome, all of which are on the opposite side of the Tiber.
Ancient Jerusalem, however, like ancient Rome, was noted as a city built on seven hills
“Babylon the Great” represents “worldly” culture that has rejected the true God for materialism, affluence and comfort. It is not a literal single city, but any place with an idolatrous materialistic character and worldview.
Also, the “harlot” is not a literal person, but she represents a culture and people that are obsessed with pleasure and sensuality and have rejected the Lord.
Both are alive and well in the world today.
No. Supercessionism is sick.
This would mean that Peter wrote his first epistle from Jerusalem and not Rome or the real Babylon.
1 Peter 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.
Catholic apologist Karl Keating confirms that Rome was known as Babylon and cites 1 Peter:5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.. 1 The Catholic Encyclopedia states, “It is within the city of Rome, called the city of seven hills, that the entire area of Vatican State proper is now confined.” [The Catholic Encyclopedia ( Thomas Nelson, 1976), under the heading, “Rome.”]
Babylon is symbolic of Man’s effort to replace or overthrow God.
Just like Satan’s sin was pride and trying to exhale himself above God, Mankind has tried the same thing.
Since Mankind would have been successful in believing it had replaced God, God decided to confuses the languages.
As to the actual city, in different times, this will actually be a different place.
Jerusalem? No. Why? Because God has a special place for Jerusalem, not based on it’s or it’s inhabitant’s behavior. Once God makes a promise, it’s done.
And no, God cannot make mistakes, he has not replaced the Jews or Jerusalem. We must wait on his timing.
I like your homepage.
It doesn't say seven hills: it says seven mountains. The only city that sat on seven mountains in the ancient days was Jerusalem, that I am aware.
But I believe it is possible that it was referring to the Roman Empire as the beast, with the beast interpreted as the overall entity, rather than as one of the seven "kings." Recall the woman also sat upon the beast (Rev 17:3.)
>>>Jerusalem never was the city that ruled the kings of the earth, Rev. 17:18.<<<
That is a very good point. I pondered that for a long time until I researched the Greek. It appears the words kings and earth could have also been translated to read "the sovereigns of the land," which in the case of Judea would have been the local or provincial Jewish leaders. Using that translation, Jerusalem would have been the overall ruler, and would "reign" over the others.
Strong's translates earth to:
(1093) ghay ; contrete from a primary word; soil ; by extension a region , or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application): — country, earth (-ly), ground, land, world.
A word study produces this:
1) arable land
2) the ground, the earth as a standing place
3) the main land as opposed to the sea or water
4) the earth as a whole
4a) the earth as opposed to the heavens
4b) the inhabited earth, the abode of men and animals
5) a country, land enclosed within fixed boundaries, a tract of land, territory, region
Many uses of the same Greek word in the NT show local regions, such "land of Sodom," "land of Zabulon," etc.; but the translations are all over the place.
Strong's translates kings to:
(935) bas-il-yooce’ ; probably from (939) (ba>siv) (through the notion of a foundation of power); a sovereign (absact, relative or figurative): — king.
A word study produces this:
1) leader of the people, prince, commander, lord of the land, king
>>>It is the home of the only church that is a sovereign nation, and with whom the major nations of the earth exchange ambassadors even today.<<<
Which verse in the Revelation would that refer to?
>>>Some, if not many of those very nations would refuse to accept Israel’s declaration that Jerusalem is its national capital and would refuse to locate their embassies there. Indeed, they would happily vote to “internationalize” Jerusalem and send in “peace-keeping” soldiers if necessary to enforce their vote.<<<
I was referring to old Jerusalem that was destroyed in 70 AD. In other words, I believe Babylon the Great was destroyed in 70 AD, and it was also known as Jerusalem.
These things also happened in both Jerusalem and Babylon the Great:
“Then will I cause to cease from the cities of Judah, and from the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride: for the land shall be desolate.” (Jer 7:34)
“And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee . . .And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee:” (Rev 18:23-24)
Both were also made desolate.
I have read many commentaries that claim Babylon was the Papacy; but the Papacy will never be responsible for the blood of the prophets, apostles, and all the righteous slain upon the earth. Therefore, it can never be Babylon the Great, without massive spiritualization of the scriptures.
Jerusalem, on the other hand, was responsible for all of those. That was the point of this discussion: to explore other alternatives that the traditional, bandwagon interpretation.
Philip
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