Posted on 06/14/2014 4:58:45 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
In the fundamentalist Bible church I attended as a child we would regularly have long sermons about the “end times”. These were based on an interpretative system of the Bible called “Dispensationalism”.
The roots of this theology were the idea that history could be broken down into various “dispensations” or time periods and that God behaved differently and different things happened to the human race in these different dispensations. Part of this teaching was that the “rapture” would take place in which all the Christian people would be supernaturally whisked up into heaven and the sinners would remain behind. Thus the “Left Behind” series of books and films.
“Knowledge shall be increased”
http://www.calvaryoxnard.org/2010/reasons-to-believe-in-a-pre-tribulation-rapture
But even beyond that, there are people who flat out refuse to read the Book of Revelation. They cannot even fathom that it lays out events, and timelines, very clearly. Those who think Christ comes back (the BAM! theory) are clueless. They either cannot read Scripture or they are completely misguided.
He does come to snatch His church - those who have given their hearts to Him now. But, then the plan is set in motion.
Revelation contains incredible world events. Plagues, wars, the sun increasing in heat, 1/3 of all fresh water destroyed, 1/3 of all plant life destroyed, meteors hitting the earth, water poisoned, locust-like flying insect creatures that have the poison of scorpions, a world wide one religion, the Anti-Christ, worldwide earthquakes, and on and on and on.
I think the roaring 20’s was worse than today, even politically.
I think there is an end time and the signs tell us we are getting into it but no one except God knows when it will be or how long it will last.
We are told to recognize that time of his coming just like you would read the weather and recognize that a storm is coming (you know that storm isn’t a thousand years away, but is right around the corner).
There are any number of evils throughout history, slavery for one, where the victims could have asked the same thing. I don't think blacks who were being lynched for the crime (gasp!) fighting against being shoveled to the back of the bus in the 40s and 50s thought the times they lived in were so righteous, either.
These are not necessarily signs of the "End Times", but it could mean the end of Western civilization if we choose to embrace it. Evil is not just something that started a generation or two ago, but is a perpetual sign of our fallen nature. OTOH, the Church is growing in Russia and China even under oppressive circumstances. If our Western civilization chooses homosexuality, porn, and abortion over living in God's Kingdom, there will be others to take our place.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 will happen. The question is when. Some believe in a pre-Tribulation rapture, some a mid, and some an end Tribulation rapture. I believe that according to Bible hermeneutics, a pre-Tribulation rapture makes the most sense.
Complete sentences would be helpful...
I’ve addressed each of your citations, so WHAT are suggesting?
“thief” and “wrath” ?
You make no argument in support of the Rapture.
You seem only concerned with references to Mary.
1 Thessalonians 1:10
...and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who RESCUES US FROM THE WRATH TO COME.
You either believe the Holy Spirit or you do not. Those who deny Scripture deny Jesus Christ and will not be part of the "rescue", as the Holy Spirit puts it.
Keep looking up and don't let the mockers get you down. God will give them exactly what they want.
Exactly, SubMareener.
Very ice SkyPilot! Thanks for posting that!
Awesome!
Faithful to what? If they do not believe in Christ, their faith is in vain.
>>>Most Jews, especially American Jews believe in abortion on demand and sodomite “marriage”. Even the state of Israel is caving in to the radical sodomite agenda. Sad, but true. The only countries on earth that are not being overtaken by sodomites are the Muslim countries and those with a strong Christian orthodox faith. Russia immediately comes to mind. Putin is to be applauded for not caving in to the child molesters.<<<
I agree with you on on all of that, including Putin. He has done much to destroy the filth and ungodliness of the Bolsheviks, thus opening the way for the re-emergence of Christianity into the lives of the Russians.
Why does our media hate him so much? It has nothing to do with communism, and everything to do with their sheer hatred of Christians, Christianity and decency, generally.
Philip
Israel becomes a nation again May, 1948. You have to have Israel in the End Times.
1967 Six Day War: Israel retakes the Temple Mount area paving the way for a future Israeli Temple. This will go toward the anti-Christ offering a sacrifice at the mid point of the tribulation.
1979 Islamic Revolution begins in Iran paving the way for the wars of Ezekiel 38 and 39. Couple that with what's happening in the ME today.
The next piece of the puzzle appears to be Turkey. If you identify those nations in Ezekiel most are located in Turkey and the area north of the Black Sea.
We're also seeing a revived Russian bear.
So the possible alignment of Islam and Russian to fight Israel appears to be happening.
If we're not in the End Times, not sure what else it would take.
As I tell folks...we're are one day closer to it though.
As far as "thief" and "wrath", why repeat myself? Go back and read what I've already sent you about both of these issues, which remain scripturally unreconciled in your scheme of things.
I will agree that Paul was referring to the first resurrection; but I believe it occurred near the end of the tribulation. All the disciples spake as if they were to be participates in the tribulation, and Jesus warned them it would occur, both directly and in parables. For example, this was from a parable:
"Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended." (Mt 13:21 KJV)
This was direct:
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." (Jn 16:33 KJV)
The book of Acts made this declaratory statement that severely discredits the "prophecies" of the pre-tribulation raptururists:
"[Paul] Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God." (Acts 14:22 KJV)
But of the 22 references to tribulation I have in my notes, this one seems to be the most discrediting to the pre-tribulation rapturists:
" After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands . . . And one of the elders answered, saying unto [me, John:] What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Rev 7:9, 13-14 KJV)
So, what happened to all those righteous people?
>>>But even beyond that, there are people who flat out refuse to read the Book of Revelation. They cannot even fathom that it lays out events, and timelines, very clearly.<<<
I agree there are timelines; but the first verse (Rev 1:1) sets the initial time context. Ignore that, and all the rest becomes subject to a wide range of interpretations: from mere speculations to the wildest of imaginations.
>>>Those who think Christ comes back (the BAM! theory) are clueless. They either cannot read Scripture or they are completely misguided. He does come to snatch His church - those who have given their hearts to Him now. But, then the plan is set in motion.<<<
If Christ comes to "snatch" the Church away from the earth, then how do you interpret this verse?
"Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen." (Eph 3:21 KJV)
>>>Revelation contains incredible world events. Plagues, wars, the sun increasing in heat, 1/3 of all fresh water destroyed, 1/3 of all plant life destroyed, meteors hitting the earth, water poisoned, locust-like flying insect creatures that have the poison of scorpions, a world wide one religion, the Anti-Christ, worldwide earthquakes, and on and on and on.<<<
All of that might simply be Christ's warning to the early Church about the pending persecution of the Church by the Jews, and the destruction of Jerusalem, along with Nero's upcoming 42 month war against the saints. After all, what does "shortly come to pass" really mean, as in:
"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass… " (Rev 1:1 KJV)
There are about thirty references in the book of the Revelation alone that point to immediate fulfillment of many of the prophecies in that book. Only the "thousand year" reign and the binding of Satan indicate long periods of time. And doesn't immediate fulfillment more appropriately fit Christ's other prophecies of immediacy: that he would be coming, in his kingdom, during the generation of his disciples: during their lifetimes?
"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here [the disciples,] which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." (Mt 16:27-28 KJV)
"But when they persecute you [the disciples] in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come." (Mt 10:23 KJV)
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." (Mt 24:34 KJV)
Besides that, the fulfilment of other prophecies questions futurism. For example, Jesus said this to his disciples during the Olivet discourse:
"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (Mt 24:14 KJV)
And he said this to them shortly after his resurrection:
"Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." (Mk 16:15 KJV)
A casual reading implies fulfillment could only happen in the distant future. But digging deeper we find the meaning of the phrase, "all the world," in that context:
"And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed." (Lk 2:1 KJV)
The phrase "all the world" simply meant the Roman Empire; and Paul declared the fulfillment of both those prophecies while he was still alive:
"For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:" (Col 1:5-6 KJV)
"If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;" (Col 1:23 KJV)
Anyway, I hope you can see why I have problems with the doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture, and with futurism, generally.
Philip
So All of us believers who are around at the time are going up with Him on the first round. But it will be funny to hear these guys telling Jesus that he's got it all wrong and he came too soon.
God bless and thanks, Giovanna. Christ, not eschatology, is the crucial issue. After Christ, all else by comparison, is "small stuff." Nevertheless, God cares deeply about the well being of his people and wants his people to "reign in life." Hence Paul's words of comfort and encouragement to the Thessalonians.
The Lord is the lifter of my head and his anointing buoys and lifts me up as I along with others, "earnestly contend for the faith that was once delivered to the saints" (Jude 1:3) regarding "growing in grace and the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 3:18).
:-)
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.