Posted on 08/17/2014 10:21:22 AM PDT by wmfights
Not accurate. Chapter 19 flows clearly into chapter 20. The birds are feasting on the kings of the earth at the end of chapter 19 and then beginning in chapter 20 an angel binds Satan. So it is not an overview of past events.
This is the point where folks ask the question “is the translation of the elect/church a resurrection ‘event.’ Does not matter if you are a pre, mid or post tribulation adherent of translation or rapture...all three views must maintain based on Revelation 19-20 that the bride in Revelation 19 already have resurrected glorified bodies. If not you are faced with allegory and have to depart a literal interpretation.
Please review Revelation 19-20. You are incorrect. There is no jumping back in Revelation 20.
How often must I ask you to examine the chapters in question? I even posted them more than once.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[a] thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
I think the better question for this particular discussion is:
Do the Scriptures support the doctrine of the Trinity? And yes they do since the doctrine was based on scriptural evidence which you have provided a few.
You said “ after his second coming” . This is what I am not seeing in the verses you propose, since Jesus is reigning now and the second coming has not occurred as yet.
Oh??
he comes with the OT and NT saints from heaven and the believers still alive on that day, are caught up to meet with them in the air v 40, 41 , 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 2 Peter 3:10.
True; but that will remove just one unknowable thing that we just LOVE to fight over uh, DISCUSS here on FR.
What ain't??
Before Man ever sinned; THIS was said:
Genesis 2:15-17Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
EVIL was already in existence at that time; or else KNOWLEDGE of it would be a non-existence thing.
Evil is by definition any rebellion against the will of God, so it is something that had to come into being after creation.
1 thessalonians 4:
[13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
This is a description of the first resurrection!
2Peter 3:10 speaks of the entire millennium, from the first trump through the destruction of the physical universe.
You are mixing things up to cause confusion.
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Dispute you, Rood, and Satan trying to put doubts in peoples minds scripture tells us we can be sure.
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Titus 3:5 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost
Well! What have we here? So you say Jesus is God and the Father is God but not the Holy Spirit? In Acts 5 who did Ananias lie to?
I will lay out the very clear chronological order of Revelation 19-22 below. Out of professional courtesy please read it:
Revelation 19 records the following:
Starting in Revelation 19:7 we have the marriage of the Lamb with His wife. This occurs in Heaven. So the elect/church are already there before the second coming. Here it goes:
Revelation 19:
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
Event one, marriage supper of the Lamb. Next event, still in Revelation 19 is the Second Coming of Jesus Christ with His saints/elect, those clothed in the white linen:
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
The above outlines literal future events. (1) Marriage supper of the Lamb; (2) then Second Coming with the bride; (3) Conquering Messiah destroys kings of the earth, the beast and false prophet captured and thrown into the lake of fire. This ends chapter 19 but not the dialogue, it continues to Revelation chapter 20:
Revelation chapter 20 overview of events as continued from Revelation 19: (4)Satan is bound for a 1,000 years. This is after #3 above. Starting with Revelation 20:1-3
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Starting in Revelation 20 verse 4 we have event (5) first judgment and first resurrection:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Then the next event (6) Satan loosed out of his prison. Continuing in Revelation chapter 20:
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Then event (7) the Great White Throne (GWT) Judgment follows. This event ends with the second death. Continuing in Revelation chapter 20:
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
This completes chapter 20 of Revelation. As we all know, chapters and verses were a later add on so the events flow into chapter 21.
In chapter 21 we have the following events. I will let the readers reference the scriptures:
Event (8): Chapter 21 the new heaven and new earth; John sees at this time the New Jerusalem coming down from God out of Heaven. Then the remainder of chapter 21 through the end of chapter 22 we have a description of the new Jerusalem and how life will be in the Glorious Presence of the Lord.
This is very straight forward. It is right there in the text and not masked in riddles or allegory.
Another interesting note from chapter 21 is the use of 'resurrection' when stating the first resurrection. It is from the Greek 'anastasis'. Later at the GWT Judgment (the second judgment) 'anastasis' is not used at all. There is only death and judgment...specifically the second death is mentioned but not life eternal.
LOL...a most astute observation.
I am reminded of my dear Aunt who had days to live. I had the blessing to sit with her hours before she passed reading her favorite passages in Scriptures. She loved the Lord and had a good sense of humor to the end. She told me to tell my mother and father that the rapture debate is no longer an important issue when you have hours/days to live. That the peace and grace Jesus gives us in our last moments is a most ‘rapturous’ event in itself.
This from a woman who was in a lot of pain from terminal cancer.
You are attempting to make a detailed schedule out of an overview!
The resurrection is what you are calling a “translation” which is nowhere in God’s word.
We will literally be given a new birth in a body suitable for the realm of the Father, and it will be just exactly as Paul explained it. There is no pre-trib rapture, and as John 3:13 says, NO MAN HAS ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN.
The dead in him will be first, then the living, at the last trump, which is the exact end of Satan’s tribulation of the saints. Satan is not bound at this point, that happens after the battle which happens when we return with him to Earth.
The ideas you offer are all man made, not in any way in agreement with the word (all of the word, not some clipped verses, or clipped chapters either)
You have to accept the word as written. Rev 15:1-4 describes the scene immediately after the first resurrection, “those that had obtained victory over the beast and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name.” How did they get there? - Go back one more chapter. At ch 14:1-5 we see that those that were faithful to Yehova and to the Lamb have been redeemed out from among men.
How does this fit your imagined time table for chapter 19?
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You keep forgetting about the requirement to believe in him.
That requires a life of obedience to his teachings, which you have already completely rejected here on this forum countless times.
So now you try to deflect? I just showed how your previous statement was completely wrong. Now you try something different which is also contradicted by the scripture I posted. Go back and read them. They say it’s a done deal. Now you, Rood and Satan want to say it depends on works of the law. That’s a lie that Satan uses to instill doubt. Rood teaches Satan’s lies.
Only God can open their eyes. Unless He does they will always try make scripture fit what they have been taught by man.
Now then; post the description of the second.
The electrical outlet is the Jehovah Witness claim.
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