Where Fundamentalists Are Right: 5 Things Catholics Need to Take Seriously Again

ChurchPOP ^ | 2014 | Brantly Millegan

[millegan]

The term “fundamentalist” is a pejorative term today, used to label someone the speaker believes is an irrational religious extremist of some kind.

But a hundred years ago, the term was taken as a badge of honor by theologically conservative Protestants to distinguish themselves from liberal Protestantism. While liberal Protestants in mainline denominations were denying basic Christian teachings like the authority of the Bible and the bodily resurrection of Jesus, conservative Protestants called for going back to the “fundamentals” of the faith – hence the term.

There are obviously a lot of issues on which Catholics and fundamentalists disagree, but there are a few important issues for which fundamentalists take a lot of heat in our culture that Catholics actually agree with them on – or at least are supposed to. Unfortunately, in my experience many Catholics – afraid to have themselves labeled a “fundamentalist” – can throw the baby out with the bath water and end up denying beliefs espoused by fundamentalists that are also taught by the Catholic Church.

Here are 5 things that are already present in the Catholic faith, but that Catholics could learn from their fundamentalist brothers and sisters to take more seriously:

[Elsie]

if you attend Mass for three years you will experience FAR more biblical teaching than you would recieve during and weekly protestant service.....

EVERY Prostestant church I've ever attended has had multiple folks who make it their goal to read thru the entire bible once a year; on their own schedule and time allocations.

They are ENCOURAGED to read it by the clergy.

Does Catholicism having folks that do the same; and are they encouraged to do so?

[Elsie]

Now THIS is more like it!!

[metmom]

Experience shows that the Holy Spirit comes upon people only infrequently, and that only on rare individuals.

That's in the OT. In the church age, the Holy Spirit is given to ALL born again believers.

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Corinthians 5:4-8 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Ephesians 1:13-14 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

If you think the Holy Spirit is helping you understand what you read, and you have not had an earth-shattering, entirely unique, draining, and unmistakable supernatural experience, you are mistaken.

On the contrary, He does do that in the life of the born again believer. Spiritual truths are spiritually discerned and can only be apprehended through the enlightening work of the Holy Spirit.

Nor does someone need an "earth-shattering, entirely unique, draining, and unmistakable supernatural experience" to be led by Him or to know His presence. The Holy Spirit can speak with a still, small voice.

[daniel1212]

There are people in the world—though not here on FR, of course—who make a practice of pronouncing judgment on other people’s credibility, as though they had been promoted to lord high arbiter thereof. The difference between those people and educated Catholics is that the latter are capable of applying both reason and faith to the solution of the problems that God poses to us, for our edification.

Mere bombast, again, by one who has continually manifest he evidently only see what he wants, and on the issue at hand the judgment was based upon your own absurd pretension to omniscience, and of denial of what was subsequently easily documented, and resorting to false claims in attempts at damage control, all of which was/is manifest for all to see.

If you want to continue this it must be done via PM, per forum rules, and the evidence can be brought forth before your peers for a verdict.

[metmom]

Experience shows that the Holy Spirit comes upon people only infrequently, and that only on rare individuals.

If you think the Holy Spirit is helping you understand what you read, and you have not had an earth-shattering, entirely unique, draining, and unmistakable supernatural experience, you are mistaken.

So tell me, what qualifies you to speak so authoritatively on how the Holy Spirit works and what He can and can't do? How do you know what limits to put on how He works and what He does?

[metmom]

One of the most exceedingly wrong-headed, wrong-hearted, unwise, and downright stupid people it has ever been my misfortune to meet had a PhD.

Your minister may be a great scholar, for all I know, but credentials don’t impress me.

Then why, for the love of all things sacred, do Catholics CONSTANTLY appeal to intellectual prowess, education, degrees in theology, etc, ad nauseum?

[metmom]

There are people in the world—though not here on FR, of course—who make a practice of pronouncing judgment on other people’s credibility, as though they had been promoted to lord high arbiter thereof.

I just read your last few posts.

Physician, heal thyself.

[metmom]

Take it up with God, if you don’t like it, because that’s Who I got it from.

Oh really?

And just how did He do that?

Did He tell you Himself without using the Holy Spirit? Or drop a billboard in your front yard?

[ealgeone]

>He got his PHD in ancient languages-—Greek, Hebrew, etc.”<

One of the most exceedingly wrong-headed, wrong-hearted, unwise, and downright stupid people it has ever been my misfortune to meet had a PhD.

Your minister may be a great scholar, for all I know, but credentials don’t impress me.

I've met a lot of PhDs who couldn't find water in the ocean. Most of these are teaching in college because they can't cut it in the real word.

That being said, other than an opinion, just what are your credentials in theology?? Do you understand the Greek? the Hebrew? If not, then you're way out of your league to criticize someone who has studied the languages.

I've seen some of your other posts and to be quite honest, your stuff don't measure up.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Add to this that the blind rarely see much of anything.”

“While the congenitally hysterical see proof of anything they like, wherever they look.

.............

Which is why only facts, evidence and logic count in the pursuit of truth.

[dsc]

“How did you obtain information from God contrary to the verses posted to you?”

Nothing God has communicated is contrary to Scripture; it is, however, contrary to certain misinterpretations of Scripture.

[dsc]

“I’ve seen some of your other posts and to be quite honest, your stuff don’t measure up.”

Blah, blah.

[dsc]

“Did He tell you Himself without using the Holy Spirit?”

Using the Holy Spirit? Really? He *is* the Holy Spirit; in what sense would He “use” Himself?

“Or drop a billboard in your front yard?”

Do you remember the bitter nun in Song of Bernadette? The one who resented Bernadette because she thought herself so much more worthy of “special attention?”

[dsc]

“I just read your last few posts.”

Yes, get back to me when you start understanding them.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Then why, for the love of all things sacred, do Catholics CONSTANTLY appeal to intellectual prowess, education, degrees in theology, etc, ad nauseum? “

I’ll take a stab at this metmom.

First, nothing wrong with any of those things. It is just that they have nothing to do with spirituality, nor do they guarantee spirituality or truth or holiness, or salvation or correct interpretation.

In the end, it seems that if you are not born again, you crave something authentic. Something spiritual. Something that confirms you are on the right track. Some certainty of authentication of truth.

This is where, I conjecture, the belief in “real presence” came from, the importance of touching, kissing, adoring relics, paintings, etc. came from, why praying to mystical saints came from, where religious rituals come from (not just RC), the shroud, etc.

It is when you meet a person that speaks of Christ, of His glory, who adores Him as glorified and risen, who obeys Him, who prays directly to Him with certainty, who understands that ritual means nothing, etc., that you’ve met authentic faith.

I will add that despite the barriers that men create to authentic faith and religious ritual, many are drawn to Him in saving faith - in every denomination, including Catholic. These believers are our brethren.

But in the end, it is all about Him and His glory.

If it doesn’t end with Him and His glory, it didn’t begin with God.

[dsc]

“Then why, for the love of all things sacred, do Catholics CONSTANTLY appeal to intellectual prowess, education, degrees in theology, etc”

I haven’t seen any “constant” appeal to degrees in theology. Perhaps you are deliberately engaging in hyperbole.

As for the rest, it is because that is not a matter of credentials; it is a matter of *demonstrated* ability and/or holiness.

“ad nauseum”

Now what would it mean if some people found references to the most intelligent, wisest, holiest men (and some women) in the history of Western Civilization to be nauseating?

[dsc]

“tell me”

I’m not sure I want to.

[dsc]

“all of which was/is manifest for all to see.”

Ever notice how some people, no one on FR of course, but some people, such as leftard media talking heads, for instance, just rewrite history to suit themselves, and keep repeating their invented narrative until it becomes, they hope, the conventional wisdom?

“it must be done”

Ever notice how some people, no one on FR of course, but some people, just set themselves up as ersatz authorities and start issuing proclamations?

“before your peers”

Ever notice how many civilians, when they interact with the military, just assume that they are equivalent to officer rank? I have seen senior officers, when dealing with such an asshat, rolling their eyes at his assumption that he is their peer?

Similarly, we sometimes see people of mediocre ability thinking that they have prevailed in a debate, entirely because they fail to understand the arguments, or are too closed-minded to give them legitimate consideration. No one on FR, of course, but some people.

[dsc]

“Nor does someone need an “earth-shattering, entirely unique, draining, and unmistakable supernatural experience” to be led by Him or to know His presence.”

Clinging to assumptions where one has no experience is risky at best.

[dsc]

“If not, then you’re way out of your league to criticize someone who has studied the languages.”

Nonsense. I know enough to spot twisted or tendentious interpretations, with the help of references and consultation with more scholarly individuals.

That aside, over the past 2,000 years the Church has accumulated the work product of the best and holiest minds in Western Civilization, to which one can refer when in doubt of the meaning of a passage.

As G. K. Chesterton wrote, “There is no other case of one continuous intelligent institution that has been thinking about thinking for two thousand years. Its experience naturally covers nearly all experiences; and especially nearly all errors. The result is a map in which all the blind alleys and bad roads are clearly marked, all the ways that have been shown to be worthless by the best of all evidence: the evidence of those who have gone down them.”