How (Pope) Francis Is Befriending the Pentecostals

Chiesa ^ | November 19, 2014 | Sandro Magister

[NYer]

In Latin America, they're pulling millions of faithful away from the Catholic Church. But the pope has only words of friendship for them. This is his way of doing ecumenism, unveiled here in two of his video messages

by Sandro Magister

ROME, November 19, 2014 - With the mastery for which it is known all over the world, the Washington-based Pew Research Center has conducted a survey on a massive scale that gives substance to a fact that was already known in general terms, the startling decline of Catholic membership in the Latin American subcontinent:

> Religion in Latin America. Widespread Change in a Historically Catholic Region

In the geographical area that is used today to indicate the new center of mass of the worldwide Catholic Church, midway through the last century almost the entirety of the population, 94 percent, was made up of Catholics. And still in 1970 Catholics were in the overwhelming majority, at 92 percent.

But then came the collapse. Today the proportion of Catholics is 23 points lower, at 69 percent of the population. The negative record belongs to Honduras, where Catholics have dropped to under half, from 94 to 46 percent. To get an idea of how sharp the decline has been, it should be enough to think that it has taken place entirely within the time span of the episcopal ministry of Cardinal Óscar Andrés Rodríguez Maradiaga, archbishop of Tegucigalpa and coordinator of the eight cardinals called by Pope Francis to assist him in the governance of the universal Church.

The collapse in the number of Catholics has been accompanied everywhere by the exuberant growth of "evangelical" and Pentecostal Christians, of Protestant descent. This was known too, but the Pew Research Center has highlighted that those who are passing from one membership to another are not usually the most lukewarm in their faith, but the most fervent.

The converts to the "evangelical" communities turn out, in fact, to be much more dynamic in propagating the Christian faith. And there is also a difference in helping the poor. While the Catholics assist them and that's it, the "evangelicals" are not only more active in works of charity, but also do not miss the opportunity to preach the Christian faith to the poor.

There is also a great discrepancy in religious practice. In Argentina, for example, the "evangelicals" who put great emphasis on religion in their lives, pray every day and go to church every week are 41 percent, while the Catholics are just 9 percent and take last place in the rankings together with Chile and secularized Uruguay.

The survey of the Pew Research Center also demonstrates that converts from Catholicism to the "evangelical" communities are not drawn by greater leniency on the matters of abortion or homosexuality.

The reality is the opposite. Those most resolute in opposing abortion and marriage between persons of the same-sex are found among the neo-Protestants, not among the Catholics.

In Argentina, for example, more than half of Catholics, 53 percent, say they are in favor of homosexual "marriage," which is already legal in that country. While among the neo-Protestants those in favor are 32 percent.

The survey of the Pew Research Center is a must-read, rich as it is in data on this epochal phenomenon.

And it is therefore understandable that a pastor like Jorge Mario Bergoglio - who as an Argentine has experienced in person the collapse of Catholic membership in his country and on the continent - should wish to act accordingly.

Otherwise there is no explanation, in fact, for the incessant efforts that Pope Francis is undertaking with the world leaders of those "evangelical" and Pentecostal movements that in Latin America are the most fearful competitors of the Catholic Church. Not to fight them, but to make them his friends.

It is an effort that he began long before his election as pope, and that most recently had its most conspicuous moment in the visit that he made to Caserta last July 27 to meet the Pentecostal pastor Giovanni Traettino, who has been his friend since he was archbishop of Buenos Aires:

> Francis's Secret Friend in Caserta

In the addressee gave on that occasion, Pope Francis presented his vision of ecumenical relations as"unity in diversity": a sort of universal Church in the form of a prism of which the Catholic Church would be one facet, on a par with the other Churches and denominations.

It is not clear how Francis might harmonize this vision of his with what is stated by the previous magisterium of the Church in matters of ecumenism. The fact is that he takes it greatly to heart, as emerges from the frequent informal talks that he gives to one or another of the “evangelical” pastors he encounters.

Pope Bergoglio usually receives them at Santa Marta. Or he reaches them in various places of the world with live video messages.

And the words that he says on these occasions, which never appear in the official Vatican sources, make the rounds when the recipients post them on the web, with evident satisfaction.

One recent encounter of this kind between the Pope and "evangelical" leaders took place at Santa Marta during the synod last October. Francis received the widow and coworkers of a bishop of the Communion of Evangelical Episcopal Churches, Tony Palmer, a longtime friend from South Africa who died in a car accident last July.

A few months earlier, Francis had sent a powerful video message to a meeting presided over by Palmer and another leading "evangelical" personality, Texas-based pastor Kenneth Copeland, a proponent of the "theology of prosperity," both of whom the pope had received in Rome on June 24.

The Popes message begins four minutes into this video:

> Ecumenismo. Papa Francisco envía mensaje de unidad a cristianos evangélicos

While here is a link to the encounter in October, where the pope had at his side (see photo) Palmer's widow, Emiliana, and the "evangelical" bishop who succeeded him, Robert Wise:

> The miracle of unity

While the following is a transcription and translation from the original Spanish of the words spoken by Francis, with his vision of ecumenism.

__________



“LET’S NOT WAIT FOR THE THEOLOGIANS TO COME TO AN AGREEMENT”

Pope Francis to the leaders of the Communion of Evangelical Episcopal Churches


First of all, I congratulate you for your courage. Yesterday at the entrance to the synod hall I ran into a Lutheran bishop and I said to him: “You here? What courage!” Because in another era they burned the Lutherans alive… [laughter].

Yesterday there was a meeting organized by Tony [Palmer]. He was enthusiastic about it, as was I, and I am grateful to Archbishop Robert Wise and to Emiliana who have wanted to take up the torch, the “fiaccola” [in Italian], the torch of this dream, this dream that Tony had. The dream of walking in unity.

We are sinning against the will of Christ, because we are looking only at the differences. But we all have the same baptism, and baptism is more important than the differences. We all believe in the Father, in the Son, and in the Holy Spirit. We all have within the Holy Spirit who prays, "now" for us, the spirit who prays in us.

And everyone must know that there is also a father of lies, the father of all divisions, the "anti-Father," the devil who gets in and divides, divides… Tony talked about this a lot, about this going forward and walking, walking together in what unites us. And that the Lord Jesus with his power may help us so that what divides us may not divide us too much.

I don't know, it's crazy… Having a treasure and preferring to use imitations of the treasure. The imitations are the differences, what matters is the treasure. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the vocation to holiness, the same baptism and the call to preach the Gospel to the ends of the world. The certainty is that he is with us where we are going… He is not with me only because I am Catholic; he is not with me because I am Lutheran; he is not with me because I am Orthodox… A theological madhouse! [laughter].

Each one has his own identity, and I presuppose that each of us is seeking the truth. So let's walk together. Let's pray for each other and do works of charity together. Matthew 25, together. And the Beatitudes, together. And we all have talented theologians in our churches. May they do the work of theological study. This is also another form of walking. But let's not wait for them to come to an agreement… [laughter]. This is what I believe [applause].

There's something else. This is called spiritual ecumenism, but there is something else. Today we are witnessing the persecution of Christians and… I was just in Albania… They told me that they didn't ask if you were Catholic or Orthodox… Are you Christian? Boom! Currently in the Middle East, in Africa, in many places, how many Christians have died! They don't ask them if they are Pentecostal, Lutheran, Calvinist, Anglican, Catholic, Orthodox… Are they Christians? They kill them because they believe in Christ. This is the ecumenism of blood.

I remember: once I was in Hamburg, around 1986 or ‘87, and I met a priest. And the priest was working on the cause of beatification for a Catholic priest who had been guillotined by the Nazis because he taught the catechism to the young people. But in studying he had seen the list of those condemned to death that day, and right behind him there was a Lutheran pastor who was sentenced for the same thing. So the blood of the priest was mingled with that of the pastor. The priest went to the bishop and said to him: “Either I'm moving the two causes forward together, or I'm not doing anything." Ecumenism of blood.

I don't know, there's nothing more I want to say, I don't know… Just one other thing that Tony talked about, when he was a young man. In South Africa, in the schools, whites and persons of color went together, played together, but at lunchtime they were separated and said: "We want to eat together." He had that desire within: to walk together in order to be able to eat together at the banquet of the Lord [applause]. As the Lord wills, as the Lord wills.

I would like to thank Father Robert Wise for his presence, Tony's spiritual father. And the presence of Emiliana, a strong woman… They both inherit many things from Tony. We must recognize that he is the one who has brought us together. I don't know if this desire for unity, to continue forward creating unity, praying for each other, fulfilling the Beatitudes together, fulfilling Matthew 25 together… Without making an institution, freely, like brothers.

[Kackikat]

ACTS Ch2:VS4

http://biblehub.com/acts/2-4.htm

YOU would be wise to read the whole book of ACTS.

[Iscool]

As bad as some of the liturgies I have attended over the decades, my focus has remained on Jesus Christ who comes to me each week in the Eucharist.

Those who abandon the Catholic Church for an Evangelical one, abandon the living Christ. They may hear His words but they cannot receive Him, body, soul and divinity.

God in the scriptures does not teach that one will be indwelt with the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ and God when one partakes of your Eucharist...God does however teach that the born again Christian will be indwelt with the Spirit of God 24/7 when he/she trusts Jesus to be his/her Savior...

Those who leave your religion for other denominations and ultimately become Christians not only do NOT abandon Jesus but they find Him, they come HOME to Him where he is in them 24/7...

[metmom]

In Latin America, they're pulling millions of faithful away from the Catholic Church.

Nobody is forcing the people to leave.

[MamaB]

Acts 2:41. I think.

[Kackikat]

Oh I see what you meant now...it was 120 in book of Acts and 3000 at Notre Dame.

[Iscool]

Paul's letters were not written as scripture

In a word, NUTS!!!!!!!!!!

[Anitius Severinus Boethius]

Why sow dissension, Iscool? Are enough people saved that you need to start fights and feed the fires of our human failings? Is that what God would have you do?

Do you want more souls in heaven or do you want the smug satisfaction of being right?

[trisham]

Hatred cannot be right.

[APatientMan]

Very good. Thank you.

[metmom]

Why are Catholics in South America being drawn to the Pentecostal churches? Are they finding their spiritual needs fulfilled by the Pentecostals in a way that the Roman Catholic church is not meeting those needs?

A friend of mine who recently visited The Dominican Republic was told by the people there that the priests molesting children problem is far worse in those countries than it is in the US and the people there are sick of it.

They've finally had enough and are voting with their feet.

And hopefully finding Christ in the meantime and not just changing denominations.

[Kackikat]

In Book of Acts it was 3000 added to the Church that day after the 120 spoke in tongques in the Upper room:

http://biblehub.com/acts/2-41.htm

So right number 3000, but after the original upper room of 120...got it now.

[RegulatorCountry]

It strikes me that the catechism of the Roman Catholic Church is treated by Catholics much as the platform of the Republican Party is treated by Republicans.

They ignore it.

Traditional, moral, conservative people are in the distinct minority in the Roman Catholic Church, traditionalist bishops are being forced out. It’s controlled by the majority and that majority are not traditionalists. That majority actually approves of Vatican II.

This is much like the Republican Party, which is controlled by open borders advocates who undermine social conservatism at every turn and offer only token resistance to socialized healthcare, of which they actually approve.

Roman Catholics championing their church and disparaging Protestant denominations here sound exactly like the Republican party hacks who turn up before every election disparaging all talk of third party runs and any opposition to “electable” (read: as liberal as they can get away with) candidates.

You’ll end up marginalized and taken for granted, getting none of what you believe and a belly full of what you don’t.

Time to come out of both of them, imho.

[metmom]

The upper room did not hold 3,000 people. The 3,000 did not convert until after Acts 2:4.

Perhaps YOU would be wise to read the book of Acts.

[Iscool]

ACTS Ch2:VS4 http://biblehub.com/acts/2-4.htm

YOU would be wise to read the whole book of ACTS.

It was only the 12 who spoke in tongues...
The tongues were for a sign to the Jews...
The tongues spoken were recognizable foreign languages...
The GIFT of the Holy Spirit to the 3000 WAS the Holy Spirit, NOT speaking in unknown or foreign tongues...

It's layed out quite simply...All you have to do is believe what it says...

[steve86]

my focus has remained on Jesus Christ who comes to me each week in the Eucharist. Those who abandon the Catholic Church for an Evangelical one, abandon the living Christ. They may hear His words but they cannot receive Him, body, soul and divinity.

I guess Catholics who are not able to receive the Eucharist due to their living arrangements might as well convert anyway.

[Iscool]

Why sow dissension, Iscool? Are enough people saved that you need to start fights and feed the fires of our human failings? Is that what God would have you do?

Do you want more souls in heaven or do you want the smug satisfaction of being right?

Of course I want souls in Heaven...That's what this is all about...

Getting sprinkled when you are a baby and then eating a cracker when you get older and then trying to pay your own debt to God by doing goods works is NOT going to get anyone to heaven...Don't they teach you that out of the scriptures in your church???

They don't believe in being born again...They don't don't even believe in heaven or hell...They claim it's a 'state of mind'...

Heck ya I'm trying to get them on the path to heaven just like the Pentecostals down in south and Central America...

Why do you think they are leaving the Catholic religion down there if they can get the same thing in their own Catholic religion???

[Anitius Severinus Boethius]

Stop picking fights and work for good. The words of Jesus to Peter are for us today. After the resurrection, Jesus asked Peter if he loved him. When Peter said he did, Jesus replied “Feed my lambs.” He didn’t say point out where others are failing. He said feed his lambs.

[Iscool]

Stop picking fights and work for good. The words of Jesus to Peter are for us today. After the resurrection, Jesus asked Peter if he loved him. When Peter said he did, Jesus replied “Feed my lambs.” He didn’t say point out where others are failing. He said feed his lambs.

2Ti_4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

All I can do is shake my head...

[Kackikat]

Wrong. 120 not 12.

I will let God’s word defend itself. Those who have received the Holy Spirit know it, and the evidence of it.
Jesus is all you need to go to heaven, however the Comforter is the one, who operates the gifts of the spirit through Christians.

[Kackikat]

I have read the book of ACTS and the whole Bible several times. I did not say the upper room held 3000 people, so quit twisting my words as an atheist would do.

I said 3000 were added to the Church that day, and that 120 were in the upper room. Reading Comprehension problem? or did you not read further than my first post, which i corrected...might want to get all the facts, as you are the CRITICIZER IN CHIEF looking to find something to jump on!