Posted on 12/10/2014 6:32:20 AM PST by marshmallow
"Christian unity" is one of those terms that stir up a whole spectrum of—sometimes emotional—opinions.
On the one hand, we know that Jesus prayed to the Father concerning future believers "that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you" (John 17:21a, NIV).
On the other hand, charismatics know it is almost pointless to discuss the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12, 14) with Baptists or most anyone else from a mainline denomination. And Protestants of just about any stripe get riled up when they hear Catholics talking about papal infallibility or their adoration of the Virgin Mary.
It's on this latter point that Rick Warren, senior pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, and successful author, has waded into a hornet's nest of controversy by telling a Catholic News Service interviewer that Protestants and Catholics "have far more in common than what divides us" and that Catholics do not "worship Mary like she's another god."
Regarding Warren's view that Catholics do not worship Mary, Matt Slick, writing on the website of the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, goes into great detail with material from Roman Catholic sources that say Mary is "the all holy one," is to be prayed to, worshipped, that she "brings us the gifts of eternal life" and she "made atonement for the sins of man."
If that's not putting her in the place of Christ as a god-like figure to be worshipped, then what is it?
"We believe in Trinity, the Bible, the resurrection, and that salvation is through Jesus Christ. These are the big issues," Warren says. "But the most important thing is if you love Jesus, we're on the same team."
To Warren's point about being on the same team, Slick.....
(Excerpt) Read more at charismanews.com ...
Is it very plausible that she was buried and that's it?
Say whaaaaaat?
I think we've already proved they have lied in matters of Faith and morals.
I posted this a couple of times a couple of ways. They ain't listenin'.
Sorry...didn't see!
#1—A lot closer to Catholicism than Christian
#2—Definitely Catholic practice/belief
#3—Applies more to Catholicism
#4—Catholics teach “the Gospel of Jesus Christ alone.”
Mary is now out of the picture???
vlad’s gone into the deep side of the pool tonight.
Kind of a pretty prayer...could you provide the name of the author and the date that the Catholic Church accepted it as part of church teaching??.......thought so.
Have you identified which denomination or faith group under who's spiritual authority you present what you hold is the truth to Catholics ? For example are you a Protestant, a Fundamentalist, an Evangelical, a baptized Catholic ?
The reason is simple. To refute your assertion that it is the purpose of the Catholic Church and Catholics to minimize Christ.
In typical liberal fashion, the protestant projects onto the Catholic what they already practice. Christ, as understood by the Protestant is reduced to the Jesus + me relationship in which the Protestant plays the dominant role that sola scriptura allows them to do. Servants of Christ? No. Servants of themselves.
Having secured for themselves the authority to define Christian doctrine through the sola scriptura mechanism the Protestant can't countenance anything that threatens that. So, in effect, Christ is diminished to whatever comports with the carnal thinking of the Protestant. He's my Jesus, not yours. Ultimately its a selfish motivation which is not of God.
Name any Catholic doctrine you like. What's the constant Protestant refrain? "It takes away from Jesus." Please. If what the Protestant said was true and the Catholic Church and its doctrines stole glory away from Jesus, then he wouldn't be Jesus. To suggest that the created has subordinated the Creator is ludicrous. But that's the inevitable conclusion of the Protestant whose concerns are carnal and temporal in nature.
The Eucharist, the Marian doctrines, Papal Infallibility, etc. All of these things are Christ-centered. Jesus is not constrained by anti-Catholic prejudice. If anything is being taken away it is being taken from the Protestant. But in true Protestant fashion the refrain is, non serviam .
Of course you did. All the beliefs of Catholics that attribute their source to "it doesn't say it didn't happen" in scripture is suggesting the Holy Spirit forgot to include important parts of their beliefs.
Of course it does. But then you are one who defends beliefs and practices counter to scripture also.
“#1—A lot closer to Catholicism than Christian”
No, but perfect description of a Protestant anti-Catholic crank.
“#2—Definitely Catholic practice/belief”
Again, no. Protestantism is a man-made invention that chooses man-made traditions like sola fide and sola scriptura - neither of which is in scripture.
“#3—Applies more to Catholicism”
Again, no. Protestant anti-Catholics not only use misrepresentations and distortions, but even occasionally admit they lie. See my profile page to see one example.
Protestant anti-Catholics have to lie. As former Protestant John Henry Newman once wrote:
“If you would have some direct downright proof that Catholicism is what Protestants make it to be, something which will come up to the mark, you must lie; else you will not get beyond feeble suspicions, which may be right, but may be wrong. Hence Protestants are obliged to cut their ninth commandment out of their Decalogue. “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour” must go, must disappear; their position requires the sacrifice. The substance, the force, the edge of their Tradition is slander. As soon as ever they disabuse their minds of what is false, and grasp only what is true,—I do not say they at once become Catholics; I do not say they lose their dislike to our religion, or their misgivings about its working;—but I say this, either they become tolerant towards us, and cease to hate us personally,—or, at least, supposing they cannot shake off old associations, and are prejudiced and hostile as before, still they find they have not the means of communicating their own feelings to others. To Protestantism False Witness is the principle of propagation. There are indeed able men who can make a striking case out of anything or nothing, as great painters give a meaning and a unity to the commonest bush, and pond, and paling and stile: genius can do without facts, as well as create them; but few possess the gift. Taking things as they are, and judging of them by the long run, one may securely say, that the anti-Catholic Tradition could not be kept alive, would die of exhaustion, without a continual supply of fable.” (Lecture 4. True Testimony Insufficient for the Protestant View)
“#4—Catholics teach “the Gospel of Jesus Christ alone.” “Mary is now out of the picture???”
Nope. She is still there - serving Christ. It’s His Gospel. The Protestant gospel is a man-made invention from the sixteenth century.
I already demonstrated from the KJV that Mary is the mother if God. Did you believe the scriptures or harden your heart because they were presented by a Catholic and would be contrary to the tradition of your faith group ?
“vlad’s gone into the deep side of the pool tonight.”
Well, many anti-Catholics are from the shallow end of the human gene pool.
CCC 2679 Mary is the perfect Orans (pray-er), a figure of the Church. When we pray to her, we are adhering with her to the plan of the Father, who sends His Son to save all men. Like the beloved disciple we welcome Jesus' mother into our homes, for she has become the mother of all the living. We can pray with and to her. The prayer of the Church is sustained by the prayer of Mary and united with it in hope.
What was that about catholics not praying TO Mary???
No. It is not plausible that she was just buried and forgotten, because that would be ABSOLUTELY ATYPICAL behavior on the part of the early Christians. I don’t know how many of the bodies of the apostles were preserved and venerated, but relics of Peter, Paul, and at least several apostles are preserved. In St. Peter’s Basilica, the bones of about 15,000 martyrs are inside the columns of the Bernini baldacchino—those four twisty columns around the main altar. The tombs of who-knows-how-many other martyrs and saints are all over Rome and cities all over the Mediterranean region.
Whether or not all of the “relics” are genuine is beside the point. Nobody, absolutely nobody ever tried to claim that he had relics of Mary’s body. There is only one thing that could possibly have prevented somebody from falsely claiming to have relics of Mary: a consensus of all Christians that nobody COULD have relics of Mary.
Nobody ever said that nobody prays “to” Mary. At least, nobody who was repeating Catholic teaching. People pray “to” Mary in exactly the same sense that you can send a letter “to” your mother.
Nobody WORSHIPS Mary with the worship that is due to God alone. The claim that Catholics WORSHIP or ADORE Mary is a lie.
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