Posted on 12/14/2014 11:57:21 AM PST by ealgeone
The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.
They denied it over and over again for years here on Free Republic.
Non Catholic Biblical Scholors (and researchers) proved to them from their own belief systems writings that they do indeed pray to Mary.
Also found our was that more than one pope stated that salvation is available through Mary with no need to go to Jesus.
Mostly crickets were produced from those revelations but they now freely post that they do indeed pray to Mary.
....you can't convince me that our God is hateful, nor that He wishes us to hate our bretheren!Nothing like that was said in the post you replied to. This verse was quoted:
Revelation 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
Note the bolded areas.
God breathed Scripture is inerrant.
God is not hateful per se, but there certainly are things He hates.
May God bless you, and continue show to you His Truth and Godly character.
Actually, people from all cultures worshiped a virgin goddess (Queen of Heaven) since the beginning of human history.
Catholic Mary worship is merely a continuation of this.
And therein is your blindness.
Please explain the need for the Catholic Reformation.
It was precisely because they Catholic Church had become corrupt and venal.
For all [ALL] have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all [ALL] have sinned:
Then address the scripture I presented to you...............
Your question: “So, is there salvation outside the Catholic church?”
Salvation Outside the Church
The Catechism of the Catholic Church, following historic Christian theology since the time of the early Church Fathers, refers to the Catholic Church as “the universal sacrament of salvation” (CCC 774–776), and states: “The Church in this world is the sacrament of salvation, the sign and the instrument of the communion of God and men” (CCC 780).
Many people misunderstand the nature of this teaching.
Indifferentists, going to one extreme, claim that it makes no difference what church one belongs to. Certain radical traditionalists, going to the other extreme, claim that unless one is a full-fledged, baptized member of the Catholic Church, one will be damned.
The following quotations from the Church Fathers give the straight story. They show that the early Church held the same position on this as the contemporary Church does—that is, while it is normatively necessary to be a Catholic to be saved (see CCC 846; Vatican II, Lumen Gentium 14), there are exceptions, and it is possible in some circumstances for people to be saved who have not been fully initiated into the Catholic Church (CCC 847).
Notice that the same Fathers who declare the normative necessity of being Catholic also declare the possibility of salvation for some who are not Catholics.
These can be saved by what later came to be known as “baptism of blood” or “ baptism of desire” (for more on this subject, see the Fathers Know Best tract, The Necessity of Baptism).
The Fathers likewise affirm the possibility of salvation for those who lived before Christ and who were not part of Israel, the Old Testament People of God.
However, for those who knowingly and deliberately (that is, not out of innocent ignorance) commit the sins of heresy (rejecting divinely revealed doctrine) or schism (separating from the Catholic Church and/or joining a schismatic church), no salvation would be possible until they repented and returned to live in Catholic unity.
Source: http://www.catholic.com/tracts/salvation-outside-the-church
How long will I have to wait for it to be posted?
Watch it!
You hittin’ mighty close to home here!
Saw it already...
I’ve have My Preference set for this; too!
Yes it is and look at what word the Holy Spirit had the writer of Matthew 12:5 use when speaking of the priests in the temple. Your Greek Hebrew argument falls flat.
In Romans 15:16 Paul is talking about a type of service not a title. If the Holy Spirit had intended for the type of leadership hierarchy the Catholic Church has the Greek words were available just as I've shown from Matthew 12:5. Jesus Himself spoke against the apostles developing a hierarchical structure of leadership.
Paul specifically spelled out the qualifications for taking the roll of an elder or other service position in the assemblies. The Catholic Church disregards those entirely yet maintains doctrine of the Nicolaitans or conquest of the laity. Explained here.
The hierarchy of the Catholic Church is akin to the government of the United States. The apostles set up the service of the elders etc like the founders of the US set up the government to serve the people. But like the government of the US today dictates to the people so the Catholic Hierarchy dictates and rules over the laity.
We know; only the Holy Spirit can do that.
But we CAN toss the seeds out on the ground and come back later to see if they've sprouted; if the birds didn't get them that is.
Sounds like a title for a Country Song!
(She’d not been there at all if the reindeer hadn’t run over her!)
Of COURSE we are!
When one CONTENDS for the faith once delivered to the saints; it can get a bit like a huge furball.
Matthew 15:16
"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.
Matthew 231. Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
2. "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
4. They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5. "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long;
6. they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
7. they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them `Rabbi.'
8. "But you are not to be called `Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
9. And do not call anyone on earth `father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
10. Nor are you to be called `teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
11. The greatest among you will be your servant.
12. For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
13. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
14. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
16. "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, `If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
17. You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
18. You also say, `If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'
19. You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
20. Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
21. And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
22. And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
23. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
24. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
25. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
26. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
27. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
28. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
29. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
30. And you say, `If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
31. So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
32. Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
33. "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
34. Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
35. And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
36. I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
37. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
38. Look, your house is left to you desolate.
39. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "
Mark 7:26-27
26. The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.
27. "First let the children eat all they want," he told her, "for it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."
And St. Paul chimes in...
Galatians 5:12
As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
Of course you are right.
It also GAINS nothing.
The COUNTER Reformation
O...
K...
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