Is Prayer/Veneration/Worship to Mary Biblical?

self | 12-14-14 | ealgeone

[ealgeone]

The reason for this article is to determine if the worship/veneration given to Mary by the catholic church is justified from a Biblical perspective. This will be evaluated using the Biblical standard and not man’s standard.

[caww]

catholic worship of their idol mary.....which they say is not worship...so makes you wonder what it looks like when they do worship ...

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

so makes you wonder what it looks like when they do worship ...

Something like below.

"For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep [die]."
--St. Paul

"They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes. "
--St. Ignatius (110 A.D.)

[af_vet_1981]

I absolutely DENY that the text reports Jesus saying that the eleven Jewish disciples (soon to be apostles) must baptize newly made disciples with water. Rather the text says in the "name of the Father and the Son and Holy Spirit." Do you have a reading impairment? This is like the fourth time I have said this.

It seems to me you are in a cult and all these testify against you. I could raise many more witnesses but what is the point if one is hardened in doctrinal error ?
1. Dr. Charles Stanley First Baptist Church of Atlanta:
   In the passage known as the Great Commission, Jesus mentions discipleship, baptism, and teaching. We all agree that discipleship and teaching are essential to growing in faith; however, some Christians choose to postpone or ignore the commandment to be baptized. The will of God is that every person who receives salvation participate in this biblically mandated ritual.
   
   Once Jesus delivered this charge to His followers, baptism was no longer optional. Scripture contains several examples of new Christians who submitted in obedience immediately after salvation. Paul and Silas instructed their jailer to receive Christ and be baptized (Acts 16:27-33); likewise, Phillip took the Ethiopian eunuch right into the water after hearing his confession of faith (Acts 8:36-38). Today many believers procrastinate because they do not perceive baptism as a command or recognize their delay as rebellion.
   
   Too many believers today procrastinate because they do not perceive baptism as a command or recognize delay as a rebellion. The ordinance is important because it is a public confession of faith: we claim God as our Father and Jesus Christ as Savior, and we acknowledge that the Holy Spirit lives in us. The willingness to humble ourselves in this way honors God as Lord of our life. Baptism by immersion also symbolizes the transforming power of salvation: we are “buried” to demonstrate we have died to old habits; we are raised to show we now walk in newness of life (Romans 6:4).
   
   Have you obeyed God’s command to undergo believer’s baptism? If not, decide today to call your pastor and arrange your public confession of faith in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."
2. Assemblies of God :
   Baptism is an act of obedience.
   
   We baptize new believers in obedience to Jesus’ command.
   
   And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Matthew 28:18–20 (NASB)
   
   We call these verses “The Great Commission.” In them, Jesus commands His followers to take the message of the good news about Jesus into the entire world. The command to baptize followers of Jesus is a very important part of this command.
3. Dallas Theological Seminary :
   Article XIV—The Sacrament or Ordinances
   
   We believe that water baptism and the Lord’s Supper are the only sacraments and ordinances of the church and that they are a scriptural means of testimony for the church in this age (Matt. 28:19; Luke 22:19–20; Acts 10:47–48; 16:32–33; 18:7–8; 1 Cor. 11:26).
4. Calvary Chapel Association :
   We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ instituted two ordinances for the church: (a) full immersion water baptism of believers, and (b) the Lord’s Supper. (Matthew 28:19; Luke 22:19-20; Acts 2:38; 1 Corinthians 11:23-26)

[annalex]

I notice you posted a great number of remarks. Often, I ignore them as noise, be be assured that if you have a substantive comment or a question worth answering, I will.

Merry Christmas! I have a present for you:

Assumption of Mary Magdalene

José Antolinez

Oil on canvas, 205 x 163 cm
Museo del Prado, Madrid

Mary Magdalene, teach us love and humility and pray for us.

[annalex]

Both the bread and the wine of the Last supper are mentioned in 1 Cor. 11:23-29, as well as the connection to the body of the Lord.

[annalex]

in Luke 11:28 Jesus is correcting a prior statement

"μενουνγε" is indeed used to correct someone's opinion or speech in all these passages. That is exactly what Jesus did for the woman who venerated Mary: he corrected her prayer by broadening it; he did not negate it.

Virgin and Child in Glory with Six Saints
Andrea del Sarto

Let us pray. O Mary ever virgin show us Thy Son Jesus. Glory be to Thee and all the saints with Thee. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and the Holy Ghost, amen.

[annalex]

Matthew 16:19, 18:18-19

[annalex]

Correct; thank you.

[annalex]

So when Christ said “on this rock I will build my church” he was mistaken?

Regarding the naming, since Simon bar Jonah was only known as Peter to the outside world, naturally, the evangelists used the name by which he was known throughout.

[ealgeone]

Your post 3386.....Jesus is correcting the woman. Not expanding what she said.

[ealgeone]

So now Mary Magdalene has also been assumed per catholicism??

[annalex]

The disciples were being told to declare what has been bound in heaven

Your preferred translation says "whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth". If they were as you say "declare what has been bound in heaven" then the sentence would make no sense: "whatever has been bound in heaven will have been bound in heaven". Besides, in Matthew 18 the passage begins by the possibility that the decision is about a private dispute that the Church is to decide on the spot.

Holy Peter, pray for us.

[af_vet_1981]

Sola fide IS a perfectly Biblical and Apostolic doctrine taught all throughout Scripture and repeatedly defended by the early leaders of Christianity. It's strange how you can presume a single passage in one book can cancel out or negate all the others from the rest of Scripture which clearly teaches over and over that we are NOT saved by the righteous deeds we do - whether works of the Mosaic law or our works of charity. May I remind you, Abraham was justified by faith alone 400 YEARS before there even was a Mosaic law.

1. Sola Fide is neither in the Bible nor Apostolic. It comes from a Gentile, Martin Luther, who wrote it as a note in the margin of his Bible. So in effect, it is a Gentile doctrine adopted in the 16th Century without any apostolic authority and never came directly from the LORD Jesus Christ.
2. The LORD Jesus Christ clearly teaches He is going to judge and separate us according to our works. Have you ever tried to count how many parables and direct statements to this effect He makes ? The Apostle Paul is not going to save anyone who misunderstood his epistles.
3. No where in the Bible does it say anyone is justified by "faith alone." That is vanity. It specifically says that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone, ie., faith and works. No, it does not say that man is justified in the eyes of other men. In addition, faith without works is dead. Faith must be tested and must produce works of faith. We are not saved by claiming we are saved.
4. Abraham is mentioned by both James and the author of Hebrews with respect to his faith and the works of faith that he did. If you look again at Romans, and ignore the Catholic chapter markers, you see that Paul was writing about Abraham's faith with respect to the Law and gives the example of the circumcision and uncircumcision. The Apostle to the Gentiles was always concerned about protecting the Gentiles from the error of requiring they obey the Law, including the entrance criteria of Circumcision, to be saved. He points out Abraham had his righteousness of faith before he was circumcised and that circumcision was a sign of his faith. The other scriptures point out Abraham did some of his works of faith both before and after his circumcision. Paul even qualifies his discussion of Abraham as pertaining to the flesh, and later sums it up that justification is not inherited through the law; it must be by faith so it can be by grace. All of this is in harmony with James, Hebrews, and everything the LORD Jesus taught. Paul even goes on to summarize Abraham's works of faith and how that was imputed to him for righteousness.

[verga]

Your degree, your qualifications?

[annalex]

The works are only a result of proof of that faith.

That is not what the scripture says. It says, "by his works his faith was completed", and that is followed by faith without works is dead" (James 2:22, 26). We are justified by faith and works. Not by works alone and not by faith alone.

[ealgeone]

Your post 3382....I see Big Mary and Little Jesus off to the side.

Is that really Peter's chair they're bowing down to?

You know there is a reason I'm asking.......remember we have something called the internet.

[af_vet_1981]

In other words, here dikaioo is being used here to describe a recognition, by men, of an existing condition in God.

No, I find that interpretation misses the mark. James is emphatic. He is an Apostle. He learned at the feet of the LORD Jesus Christ. Are you going to depreciate the many scriptures of the LORD Jesus Christ where He Himself is going to judge us according to our works in order to support a 16th Century Gentile doctrine ? That is completely untenable. Yes, the scriptures harmonize, but not in the way you suggest. Messiah will judge us, not by works of the law, but by works of faith.

Which men witnessed Abraham offering up his only begotten son to die in a type of the Messiah ? That was not for Isaac's benefit, nor the angel's, nor other men. That was a testing of Abraham's faith and God was well pleased. What does the scripture say ? It said that now God knew Abraham feared (believed and obeyed) God because of what he had just done in not withholding his only begotten son from death. It says that Abraham believed God was able to raise Isaac from the dead after his sacrifice. These were not works of the law, of debt. These were works of righteousness, of faith, against which there is no law. They are between God and us and are required tests of faith.

[St_Thomas_Aquinas]

I see Big Mary and Little Jesus off to the side.

I don't mean to be flip, but Jesus is depicted there as a child. Mary, as His Mother, was larger than Him.

The tabernacle, which contains the consecrated Host, the Body and Blood of Christ, is usually placed behind the altar. In the posted photograph, the Host is displayed in the monstrance, or the round gold vessel on the altar.

Is that really Peter's chair they're bowing down to?

No, they are prostrating themselves before the Body and Blood of Christ, under the appearance of unleavened bread, which is referred to in the Bible by St. Paul.

"For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep [die]."
--St. Paul

"They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death in the midst of their disputes. "
--St. Ignatius (110 A.D.)

[CynicalBear]

>>That is exactly what Jesus did for the woman who venerated Mary: he corrected her prayer by broadening it; he did not negate it.<<

LOL I suppose the twisting of words comes natural.

[CynicalBear]

>>Your preferred translation says "whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth".<<

My preferred translation? My preferred translation is the Greek and the Greek indicates that the binding and loosing they were doing already existed in eternity.