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To: moonhawk

Sorry you didn’t like it. I’m merely trying to show those who don’t understand that the Bible teaches that salvation is a gift, it’s by grace, not sacrament.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


4 posted on 01/14/2015 11:30:17 PM PST by .45 Long Colt
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To: .45 Long Colt

The sacraments are all gifts. Why do you claim that the sacraments are not a gift? They are gifts by which Jesus Christ wills to give us the grace that comes from his incarnation, his suffering, his death, and his resurrection.

Your objection to the sacraments is like saying: The Mercedes is a worthless car, because a car needs wheels. Then, no matter how many people tell you that a Mercedes DOES have wheels, you keep saying: A car must have wheels; therefore the Mercedes is a worthless car.


6 posted on 01/14/2015 11:36:42 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: .45 Long Colt
it’s by grace, not sacrament.

Why did it take people 1500 years to decide that "gift/grace" and "sacrament" were somehow opposed to each other?

The Armenians have seven sacraments, the Ethiopians have seven sacraments, the Copts have seven sacraments. The first two were never under Roman political domination, and the last was just barely under it, so the "Constantine corrupted Christianity" argument falls apart. Real Christianity, the kind the Apostles taught, had seven sacraments from the beginning.

Why would Jesus teach, e.g., baptism anyway? You profess him to be God, so he would have to have known he would be utterly misunderstood and a billion people would follow a mistaken idea of his teachings straight to hell ... yet he never clarified that baptism was just a nice, but powerless and superficial, way to show the world you like him. Never! (See Mark 16:16) What kind of a "Savior" is that??

The contradiction is one you have to live with. Either Jesus is God and Catholics are mostly right, or Jesus was a well-meaning fool and Catholics are completely wrong. Pick one or the other; you can't have it both ways.

Every covenant in the OT is sealed by an oath. The word "sacrament" comes from the Latin word for "oath". Think about it. Who's swearing the oath? It isn't only the recipient (see Hebrews 16:13).

9 posted on 01/15/2015 4:14:49 AM PST by Campion
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To: .45 Long Colt

Someone sitting on the ass and guzzling beer all day and never doing one thing for his fellow man and never walking in the front door of a church, but proclaiming he’s “born again” therefore he’s going to heaven, ain’t playing with a full deck. Have a nice day.


18 posted on 01/15/2015 9:21:08 AM PST by NKP_Vet
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