Posted on 01/16/2015 5:56:35 AM PST by metmom
Keep trying to take all the credit you want. If it makes you feel better I would say “verily you have your reward”.
I think you're confusing me with another poster.
>>You, and those like minded, are determined to deny that certain instances of baptism, noted in Acts, is water, if water is not specifically mentioned.<<
Again, I have not discussed water or not water so please get you posters and who you are responding to sorted out K? Second, I have never said a persons should not be baptised. What I have said is that the salvation and forgiveness of sins preceded baptism and does not appropriate it. Come back when you can stay on topic and keep posters ans what they say separate.
Have you seen anyone here say a person should not be baptised? Please point it out if you have.
I have taken all the credit due to me, in each and every post: None.
The reward Christ has for me on earth for submitting to His working in baptism, I’ve already received: forgiveness of my sins and citizenship in His kingdom. He has promised me a future reward in His glory, which I’ll receive in the Father’s own good time.
These rewards are available to you, too.
And your "judgement" that I have not already been saved is based on what exactly?
What I hope for you is that you will examine the Scriptures closely and let God’s Word make that judgment for you. My aim in this discussion is to help you in that study as I’m able - and to help anyone else who might be reading this discussion - so that we can all know how to avail ourselves of the rewards Christ wants to give us.
I take it you are not familiar with my posting history.
I admit that I’m not.
Should I be? Do I need to go read through it? What should I on the look-out for?
Then it would probably be wise to refrain from assuming what I know, what I have studied, and what I believe.
No, you are responding to your own assumptions of what I am saying in this thread and to some I never said. I’m not interested in continuing a dialogue with you.
Well it’s up to you, of course, if you don’t want to continue the discussion, though I’d rather not part on unpleasant terms.
But I dispute the parting-shot charge you’ve made against me. I don’t see any such “responses to my own assumptions of what you said” - as you claim. It’s possible I misunderstood things you said, of course. But no one has prevented you from posting a reply to correct me.
What I have responded to are the arguments you’ve made - arguments which fit neither the Scriptures nor rational examination (eis, for instance), and which might lead people astray, just as they perhaps have done to you.
Sometimes false doctrine is spread with malicious intent, other times by careless study, or haughtiness, or simple ignorance and blindness. But no matter the cause, disciples of Jesus have a duty to expose and refute such false doctrine, and to help those who have been misled to find and follow His truth.
Except that Paul says in Ephesians that it's by grace through faith in Christ.
No mention of baptism there.
Paul also states that God did not send him to baptize but to preach the gospel. If salvation does not come except through baptism, then was Paul preaching an incompletely message?
Or was he preaching the gospel at all?
Why would he be remiss and mislead people about salvation by not including it if it was so necessary?
**Again, I have not discussed water or not water so please get you posters and who you are responding to sorted out K?**
So many have used 1Cor. 1:17 to discount the importance, or even eliminate water baptism as the command of the Lord, and his apostles, that I perhaps thought you did as well (my bad).
But, since you disregard the sin remitting power of being baptized in the name of Jesus, then you have some more rightly dividing of the word to do.
Starting with Matthew, let’s look at the Lord’s commisions in the four gospels:
Matthew 28:19,20
Keep in mind that before ascending, Jesus Christ’s first detailed command to his apostles, was for them to “..teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost; teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you..”.
What particular command did he spell right there?...YOU BAPTIZE THEM. I think you know he is talking about water baptism, so we are in agreement about that. Besides, they (the apostles) weren’t able to perform the Holy Ghost baptism. So, the Lord wasn’t instructing them to do something they were not empowered to do.
Mark 16:16
The Lord brings up his command for baptism again, giving the command in wording that shows how serious he is about water baptism: “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned”.
Remember again, that the Holy Ghost baptism is not the apostles responsibility. If they preach the gospel, and the listener(s) want baptized, the minister performs the water baptism. The minister may go on his way, both he and the convert having done their parts, trusting that the Lord will baptize with the Holy Ghost. The conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 9:35-39) spells this out quite clearly.
Luke 24:47
The Lord commanded “that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his NAME among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem”. While one would ask, where’s the water baptism in THAT command? All one has to do, is see that command initiated in Acts 2:38, for it’s fulfillment.
John 20:22,23
The Lord “breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins YE remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins YE retain, they are retained”.
SO....when THEY began to remit sins (Acts 2:38), THEY did it by water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.
Those, that don’t believe their words (including: to be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins) will have their sins retained.
The commissions of all four gospels DO harmonize with Acts 2:38. It seems that your ‘salvation before water baptism’ doesn’t completely agree with the Lord’s commands to the apostles. Because, if the minister, after seeing and hearing the converts faith, doesn’t baptise (as per Acts 2:38), then the sins are not yet remitted. But, since the convert will have been instructed, he/she will request it done, for the REMISSION of SINS.
This flys in the face of many, but the Lord said “few there be that find it”. I don’t have any idea how many a ‘few’ are (in the Lord’s definition). That’s not our job anyway.
Good luck with all that doing things to appropriate forgiveness.
**No mention of baptism there.**
Paul didn’t have to. They had already been born again:
“Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the SAINTS which are at EPHESUS, and to the FAITHFUL in Christ Jesus”. Eph. 1:1
A few years before, Paul showed up at Ephesus, and baptized twelve disciples pronto, the name of the Lord Jesus.
I encourage you to read and evaluate post #276.
You are ignoring the the Lord’s commissions? I mean, you didn’t even begin to address them.
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