Posted on 01/16/2015 8:03:35 AM PST by Salvation
“You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said: “’This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’” Matthew 15:7-9
I understand that you might be upset by the article. But that does not make me or other Catholics hypocrites.
All of this nonsense has been created by evil men who seek to control others through faith in meaningless traditions and rituals instead of faith in God and His Love and Omnipotence.
Its that special interpretive sauce of Catholic interpretation. Apply liberally to make the text mean what you need it to mean.
Am I wrong to believe that is what happens when people are taught by Rome (or any other false church), instead of being taught by God in the Isaiah 54:13 and John 6:45 sense? Such people lack Holy Spirit given discernment. I bet you have discussed passages with non-believers and then been amazed that they couldn’t see what was plainly obvious to you. So often those same people are so closed to the truth, so certain, that they won’t even contemplate it. Others will listen, but lack the ability to grasp even simple truths.
“All your children will be taught by the LORD, and great will be their peace.” (Isaiah 54:13)
“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.” (John 6:45)
You know exactly what God intended? Wow!
Look, if you sit in the pew of a Christian church (I no longer do, but I respect those who continue and I have fond memories of when I did), and your clergy starts rehashing 500 year old points of contention, stand up and walk out.
The issue— the major issue— Christian theologians and clergy should be getting their people squared away on right now is the doctrine of the trinity. Catholics and Protestants alike can’t explain it and it will be central to any and all religious dialogues (including the ones they have with their children) in the coming years.
The Protestant-Catholic food fights are entertaining, but they’ll be taking place only in nursing homes in about 20 years if you don’t get a grip on Trinitarianism, which is what the Muslims like to and do talk about. Start by listening to an Islamic critique of the doctrine of the Trinity. And then look over a catalog of courses at Protestant and Catholic seminaries and see if anyone is covering the topic...or even taking the course.
Ephesians 4:4-6
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
James 2:24
You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
The article points out the risk of making a caricature of the opposing arguments. No true believer thinks that faith is all we need. Does faith alone mean if we have faith we do not need a Savior? Obviously not. The Savior is the object of faith. Does faith alone mean the cross is not necessary? No. The cross is the means of redemption. Does faith alone mean works are unnecessary? No. Works are the expression of genuine faith.
Faith alone is perhaps an oversimplified catch phrase that emphasizes the Biblical point that faith is the means by which a person receives forgiveness of sins and imputed righteousness from God. Works are not the basis of receiving these gifts. They are gifts. However, works do follow and are part of faith. But these works are works of faith rather than works that express our own righteousness which is accomplished by rule-keeping. James illustrates this.
Abraham showed his faith by being willing to offer his son as a sacrifice. (This is not a good work, but an act that showed his total surrender and full obedience to God.) Incidentally, Abraham never actually sacrificed his son, but he proved he was willing to do so. Rahab, likewise completely cast herself on the mercy of God. What were her works of faith? Treason and lies. These are not good works. But they do illustrate the reality of her faith in God.
However, Paul and James had apostolic authority. The things they wrote were not contradictory even if they can be difficult to understand. But the Catholic doctrines and true doctrines of the Bible are not merely apparent contradictions. They are truly diametrically opposed.
We rely on apostolic authority. Today, we do not have the apostles coming to visit us to settle issues of doctrine. The Catholic doctrine claims this is the job of the Catholic church. Protestants recognize that it is the Bible itself that contains the full apostolic authority. We have James, Paul, Peter, John and others through their writings, much the same way the early church relied on their writings as well.
The Catholic church claims authority above the Bible. It claims that people cannot understand it apart from the Catholic hierarchical system.
True believers recognize the authority of the Bible and the gift of the Holy Spirit Who guides us into all truth. We are not subjects of Rome.
The issue— the major issue— Christian theologians and clergy should be getting their people squared away on right now is the doctrine of the trinity. Catholics and Protestants alike can’t explain it and it will be central to any and all religious dialogues (including the ones they have with their children) in the coming years.
The Protestant-Catholic food fights are entertaining, but they’ll be taking place only in nursing homes in about 20 years if you don’t get a grip on Trinitarianism, which is what the Muslims like to and do talk about. Start by listening to an Islamic critique of the doctrine of the Trinity. And then look over a catalog of courses at Protestant and Catholic seminaries and see if anyone is covering the topic...or even taking the course.
I completely agree. Trinitarianism IMO defines Christian orthodox theology. If a congregation or denomination gets this one wrong, they're not Christian. If Christians are going to band together to fight Islam, this along with the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ are the hills to die on.
"I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." (Galatians 2:21)
Did you catch what Paul was saying? He was saying that if the righteousness required comes not from grace, but by works of the law, then Christ's death was not needed. Do you believe Christ died in vain?
Salvation can't be by both grace and works. We don't add good works to grace, so it must be one or the other. Paul tells us over and over that no one is justified by works. Here in Galatians 2:21 he says that if righteousness comes by the law, Christ's death on the cross was in vain.
You belive in Scripture, correct? Then why don't you believe this?
I was thinking about the demons and the experience of freepers here with exorcism and it seems to me that faith is the belief in something NOT seen. The demons have seen God from the moment of their creation until He cast them out of His presence. That is not faith.
Knowing God parted the Red Sea, the Israelites had to cross the Jordan. They knew it happened before but without the faith that it would happen again, glub, glub.
I love the book of James. It really convicted me last year when I compared my childhood attitudes toward humans to how I think of them today. Faith in what we do not see is a gift and that gift is only given because of God’s grace. If we lack faith, we can just ask for it. That is one reason for praying continuously, eh?
You report someone to the religion moderator for quoting a Bible verse? You better report me too for saying that’s complete foolishness.
If you want to preach to the choir and exclude naysayers from a posting in religion, you can label it “Catholic caucus” or such. Then no one will post anything contradictory.
But if you want to try to use this forum of conservatives that includes Catholics, Protestants, Jews, and people of other persuasions, to embrace Catholic beliefs, you should expect disagreement. And it just might be expressed in the form of Bible passages.
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>> “Salvation can’t be by both grace and works.” <<
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Oxymoron.
Grace is what leads us to the works by the writing of the law on our hearts. Salvation comes at the end, and is a product of a lifetime of righteousness resulting therefrom.
Yeshua, and every apostle told us that we must endure to the end to be saved. Paul constantly cautioned his sheep lest they fail to endure and receive that prize of great value. “work out your salvation with fear and trembling...”
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This man is a fool, in the Biblical senses.
I see where you guys get the talking points from.
There are not "solos" is Protestant theology that I know of other the Christ alone. But they he goes into double speak as is befitting Catholic thought. He switches from solo to sola. The poor man obviously either doesn't understand the difference or is deliberately trying to deceive.
>>But what concerns us here is the detachment of faith from works<<
I have never seen a Protestant detach works from faith. Every one I have ever heard or talked to agrees that true faith produces works. How can it but do otherwise? Once again, the writer is characterizing the Protestant belief.
>>Finally, beware those who say, “sola Scriptura”!<<
Now we see the indwelt Catholic fear. Relying on the only true source of the infallible word of God. If they relied solely on the infallible word of God for their beliefs they would not have that fear.
>>Second, until recently most people could not read.<<
How many times must it be shown from history for them to cease that fallacious statement?
>>Third, and most important, if all you have is a book, then that book needs to be interpreted accurately.<<
And we have a lack of knowledge of what scripture says on the subject.
1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
There are so many errors in this man's article it's understandable why Catholics have no real assurance of their salvation.
Exactly, and the double speak of the article is proof of either the total lack of understanding of what scripture says or a deliberate corruption of what scripture really teaches.
And we see the familiar twisting of or injecting into what the man really said. We wonder was it deliberate or simply the result of indoctrination?
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