Mary Matters (Dr. Walter Martin on disbelief in the Mother of God)

Catholic Exchange ^ | JULY 26, 2014 | Tim Staples

[rwa265]

In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen

Remember O Most Gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known, that anyone who fled to your protection, implored your help, or sought your intercession, was left unaided. Inspired with this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of Virgins, my Mother. To you I come, before you I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in your mercy, hear and answer me, Amen.

Dear Mother Mary, we pray that you ask your Son to bring about healing for Mrs. Don-o. But if what we ask is not for the glory of God or the good of our souls, do obtain for us what is most conducive to both.

Pray for us, O Holy Mother of God
That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day, our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen

Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen

In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen

[terycarl]

Catholics don’t seem to understand that we are not only saved from the consequences of the sin we choose to do, but we are saved from our sin nature as well.

Oh, good grief, now I know where you're coming from....WE ARE SAVED FROM OUR SIN NATURE, we can no longer sin, temptation is a thing of the past, no matter what we do it has already been forgiven by Christ...........I don't think so.

[terycarl]

Where sin abounds, grace much more abounds. If there was no sin in Mary, she would not need grace, therefore couldn't be *full of grace*.

I may be wrong (I don't think so), but I'd place a large bet on the fact that you've never taken a course in logic, and if you did, you didn't do real well in it....

[terycarl]

The original Greek is inspired as well as the Hebrew, and there are plenty of online resources available to go to to look up anything you wish to investigate and find out the Greek and Hebrew word meanings.

Let's see...online resources have been available for.....say 25 or so years...where did we go before that??? I know, The Catholic church!!!!....and they still have all the answers!!

[terycarl]

It is clearly stating that men are to become God.

WOW, Mormans believe that...they even think that they get their own planets and stuff....what a ball that would be (women need not apply however)

[terycarl]

In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen

amen from me too!!

[ViLaLuz]

“Probably voted for Obama too...there goes their credibility!!!!! :)”

Unfortunately, so do the NYers :(

[Heart-Rest]

The article you link to in your post #43 is full of nonsense and falsehood.

For starters, whoever wrote that article does not seem capable of distinguishing between symbols and reality.    For example, when St. Paul said the following, he was not saying he was literally up on the cross with Jesus Christ during His crucifixion, but only "crucified with Him" in a symbolic manner of speaking.

I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.    Galatians 2:20

Any mother whose child is crucified right there in front of the mother, is also "up there on the cross with their child" (although not literally), and every astute and honest person realizes that they are not up there literally (and those pictures of symbols you posted of Mary and the Baby Jesus on a cross are just that: pictures of symbols, and it really should not be difficult for anybody to figure that out).

That type of analysis applies to all the pictures and erroneous points in your post.

Another clear example is the photo you have labeled with the following:

"Mary sitting in the place of God on the Ark of the Covenant, St. Stanislaus Kostka, Chicago"
=============================================================
No, that label assertion is a completely false assertion.   In fact, that photo is of an iconic "monstrance" called "Our Lady of the Sign – Ark of Mercy", where the Sacramental Presence of God in the Blessed Sacrament is lovingly placed for Adoration (as you can see in the picture), and that iconic monstrance is demonstrating how Mary is the "Ark of the New Covenant", who was chosen by God to hold the special Presence of God (Jesus Christ) inside her body.

God willed His special Presence to be in the old "Ark of the Covenant" of the "Children of Israel", and God also willed His special Presence to be inside of Mary as well, making her the "Ark of the New Covenant".   (That was God who willed that Mary hold God's Presence in a uniquely special way like she did, and to denigrate that Holy action of God shown to that one solitary human being favored by God named "Mary", is to denigrate God.)

(To learn more about those important matters, carefully read the following sources, starting with reading the first one on youtube.)

• "Mary Ark of the Covenant"

• "Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant" by Steve Ray

• "Lesson Three: The Ark of the New Covenant"

• "4 Biblical Reasons Mary Is The New Ark of the Covenant"

• "THE VIRGIN MARY - THE ARK OF THE NEW COVENANT"

• "Mary as the second Ark of the Covenant"

• "Church Fathers on Mary as Ark of the New Covenant"

• "Mary: The Ark of the New Covenant" by Sonja Corbitt

• "Mary, Ark Of The New Covenant" by Parick Madrid

• "Our Lady of the Sign-Ark of Mercy" (St. Stanislaus Kostka Parish - The Sanctuary of The Divine Mercy)

[Heart-Rest]

"The original Greek is inspired as well as the Hebrew, and there are plenty of online resources available to go to to look up anything you wish to investigate and find out the Greek and Hebrew word meanings."
=============================================================

metmom, the first thing anybody learns about translation from one language to another (like Hebrew to English, or Koine Greek to English) is that there is never a perfect, word-for-word translation that can ever be made between two different languages like that.    That is true for numerous reasons, including the fact that different languages express things in completely different ways, orders, structures, etc.

In addition, certain words in one language, have absolutely no corresponding words in the other language, or they might have a more distinctive set of words for something expressed in only one nebulous word in the first language, so translators often have to make their best effort to estimate (guess) exactly what was being said in the first language, and possibly use a bunch of words in the second language to try to approximate to the best of their ability what they believe was probably meant by the first language.

There is also the problem of words changing very much over time.    Even in English (from old English to new English), it is often very difficult to know exactly what the old English was saying, and the biblical texts were written a long time before that old English was written (and we do not have any experts from those biblical days to explain exactly what those Hebrew and Greek writings really mean today).

In addition to all that, translators always bring their own biases to their translation efforts, so if they are vague in their own mind about something, or not quite really sure, they likely err to the side favoring their own beliefs and prejudices when making uncertain choices.

You can look up the biblical Hebrew and Greek and individual words online, or in your own Hebrew or Greek Old and New Testaments and Dictionaries, but those online dictionaries were certainly not written by the Holy Spirit, and those various dictionaries often differ with each other as to the precise, exact meanings of different words, phrases, and sentences (and the printed dictionaries do likewise).

It is not a prudent or honest thing for anyone to stick their nose way up in the air, and try to brag that they looked up some Greek words in an online or printed Greek dictionary or interlinear translation (or other language study tool like that), and claim that they now know everything there is to know about a particular text, as that is quite simply never the truth, and anyone who believes it is, is just deluding himself or herself.

Whenever people trust themselves to be special recipients of the Holy Spirit's personal guidance, making their self- interpretation of the Holy Scriptures better than everyone else's "Holy-Spirit-guided" self-interpretation of those same Holy Scriptures, you end up with the folly we have today, with so many contradictory interpretations of every text in the Bible.

After praying for the Holy Spirit's interpretive guidance, William Miller, one of the founders of the Seventh-Day Adventist denomination, interpreted some scriptures in the books of Daniel and Revelation in the Bible, then declared that Jesus Christ was going to return to Earth in the "Clouds of Glory" in 1844.

He was wrong too.

As St. Peter said:

First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation.    2 Peter 1:20

[Heart-Rest]

The debate links there at that site seem to not be active at the moment.

Someone at that site included another link to another site which contains links for those same debates.

Here is that second link:

   Debates

[Arthur McGowan]

Of course the gospels call Mary the “mother of Jesus.”

You know why?

BECAUSE SHE WAS THE MOTHER OF JESUS!!!

And because Jesus is God, Mary is the mother of God.

There is no contradiction between these two proposition:

Mary is the mother of Jesus.
Mary is the mother of God.

The only way there could be a contradiction between those two propositions is if “Jesus” and the Second Person of the Trinity were TWO DIFFERENT PERSONS.

In other words, the only way you can deny Mary the title “Mother of God” is to deny that God became man.

In other words, the only way you can deny Mary the title “Mother of God” is to cease to be a Christian.

[Iscool]

When it is explained for the billionth time that the title “Mother of God” does not mean, and has never meant, anything so moronic, the explanations will be ignored.

Now that's funny, I don't care who ya are...

When it is explained for the billionth time that the title “Mother of God” does not mean, and has never meant, 'Mother of God'...

[deputytess]

God chose Mary above all women to bear His son. Our Lord hung on her every word as a child. She prepared him for his role as Saviour of the world. She acts as his messenger. We Catholics ask for her intercession. We don’t worship her. We honor her as we do our own mothers.

[Iscool]

The Greek word is “kecharitomene,” translated as “full of grace,” (although I admit that I am referencing catholic scholars, and do not know Greek, ancient or otherwise). I am interested to learn that Protestant thought on grace does not include the implication of freedom from original and personal sin.

The best advice is to ignore what so called Catholic and Protestant scholars think about it...Read and learn what God thinks about it...

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Just from those 2 scriptures alone, one can see that grace does not remove sin from anyone...Grace is unmerited favor that teaches us and allows us to chose to live Godly, if we desire...

[Iscool]

Jesus Christ is ONE PERSON. Thus, Mary cannot be mother of “the man Jesus” without being the mother of God.

That is the position of this Staples guy as well and that is ignorance of the Trinity...

In heaven, do people see the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost???

[Iscool]

You have to be educated in Catholicism to understand. If you choose to interpret the Bible on your own, it won’t make sense.

That is so true...The bible makes perfect sense...Catholicism is so far removed from the scriptures, the only sense it makes is that it is a man made religion...

[Arthur McGowan]

I say: The title “Mother of God” has never meant that Mary is the mother of the eternal Triune God.

Your position is: I reject the title “Mother of God” because Mary could not be the mother of the eternal Triune God.

I explain again: The title “Mother of God” has always meant that Mary is the mother of Jesus, and because Jesus is the Second Person of the Trinity, who is God, and Mary is his mother, Mary can be properly called the “Mother of God.”

You answer: I reject the title “Mother of God” because Mary could not be the mother of the eternal Triune God.

Am I following the conversation accurately so far?

[Iscool]

God chose Mary above all women to bear His son.

That part is true...

Our Lord hung on her every word as a child. She prepared him for his role as Saviour of the world. She acts as his messenger. We Catholics ask for her intercession. We don’t worship her. We honor her as we do our own mothers.

Everything else there was made yp by your religion...

[GeronL]

bump