Mary Matters (Dr. Walter Martin on disbelief in the Mother of God)

Catholic Exchange ^ | JULY 26, 2014 | Tim Staples

[terycarl]

Problem is that the original statement had to do with on the cross, not at the cross. There was a nice twist of words going on there.

nonsense, you can be with Jesus (who is) on the cross as well as with Him at the cross...both mean the same thing....you don't have to be hanging on the cross to be with Him....good grief

[Heart-Rest]

"So tell us..... What is so critical for salvation and maturity in Christ that the Holy Spirit neglected to include in Scripture that the Catholic church deems it necessary to teach it as truth?"

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For starters, the "Table of Contents" of the New Testament (i.e., exactly which letters, "gospels", and other writings of those days did belong in the New Testament, and discernment about which letters, "gospels", and other writings of those days did not belong in the New Testament).    Such a list designating exactly which writings belong in the Holy Scriptures does not exist anywhere in the Holy Scriptures.   That list is entirely external to the Holy Scriptures, and was determined by several "Councils of the Catholic Church", under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, who Jesus Christ promised would be with His Church forever:

"And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever."   John 14:16

[ADSUM]

It is amazing how non catholics or former catholics can take a few words from the Bible out of context to provide an alleged non answer to the specific words of Jesus.

[Mark17]

You still don’t understand the words of Jesus about His Body and Blood that is for our salvation contrasted against the old mosaic law about eating blood and meat of sacrificed animals to idols.

I understand it perfectly sir. I just do not agree with your interpretation. I used to believe that unscriptural thing about transubstanciation, or whatever you call it, but I don't now. You think Jesus was being literal and physical about this so called Eucharist thing, I take Him figuratively. I always interpret or deal with difficult to understand verses, as you SHOULD too, in light of the clear teaching of verses that are so clear, no one can mess them up. It appears you do the opposite. You seem to ignore the clear teaching, in favor of the difficult verses. That is your privelege, I don't agree with it. Besides, I thought you are not allowed to interpret scripture without a priest, and yet you are trying to tell me what it says. That is interpreting, and you are not allowed to do that. 🎯. You can think whatever you like. I just don't agree with you. Maybe we can settle it at the pearly gates. 😇

[terycarl]

There is absolutely no Scriptural basis for that statement.

TRADITION!!!!! I think that's a line from a movie....anyway, as the church grew over the years and centuries, those in charge passed on their teaching authority to newcomers who learned of their ways and accepted their teachings. Kind of like the way every successful organization does things. If you looked across the street and decided that you were entitled to teach their followers whatever you thought was right, you'd be wrong. The Magisterium of the Catholic church and only they, are authorized to pass to those in the future, the powers granted to them by Christ. You may want to do it....but you can't.

[terycarl]

If I were grading them, they would get an F.

You're not, luckily, so we'll keep our A++++++

[Mark17]

Kindly show me in Scripture where true believers received Jesus' Soul and Divinity through the Eucharist? I have NEVER heard that before! That's simply an outrageous claim.

Deserves repeating 🔊

[terycarl]

So you believe in one God yet part of that God died on the cross and another part of that God raised the part of God that died from the dead? Have I got the right?

Pretty much so, isn't it amazing that God can do things that even MEN can't fully understand....WOW, He's good!!!

[MamaB]

LOL. You are so funny.

[terycarl]

My heart has been circumcised. And I love honoring He that made heaven, earth the seas and fountains of water. But most will honor wooden or Thor or friya or Saturn or the sun or moon.. And they don’t even know they are conformed to the rudiments of the world.. Praise Yah He has renewed my mind..

Does any of that gibberish mean anything to anybody??? and if so, please let us in on it...I'd really like to know!!

[terycarl]

>> “But we know that the Father did not truly forsake the Son.” << . You seem to ‘know’ lots of things that simply are not so!

That sounds an awfully lot like an opinion!!!

[terycarl]

So tell us..... What is so critical for salvation and maturity in Christ that the Holy Spirit neglected to include in Scripture that the Catholic church deems it necessary to teach it as truth?

Stick around on these threads and you will relearn all that you either forgot or ignored during your days as a practicing Catholic. Once they all become clear again, you'll come home....almost all do....even the prodigal son, his pride and all!!

[ADSUM]

You can think whatever you like. I just don't agree with you. Maybe we can settle it at the pearly gates. 😇 I hope that we all meet in Heaven as God loves us and wants us to join Him. I hope that you understand that I am not trying to promote my viewpoint or win an argument, but enlighten others to God's words. It is evident that God's words meets resistance.

[terycarl]

Or, “Call no man on earth *Father*”.

I've always wondered what Jesus might have called Joseph....could it be daddy, pops, the old man, or might it have been what most people call their sires....FATHER???

You take a line like that very literally, but when Jesus hands His apostles a piece of bread and says"take and eat of this, THIS IS MY BODY"...you say, oh well, He probably didn't really mean it....PATHETIC.

[editor-surveyor]

.
No,it sounds like accepting Yeshua’s words as truth.

He never lied.

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[terycarl]

I believe Christ is at once God and man. And I believe that it was necessary for Christ to die in His divinity in order to redeem us from our sins.

that statement is correct...God the Father required a lot more than the death of a man for the redemption of mankind...His Son, Jesus Christ, all man and ALL GOD was the only sacrifice acceptable...none other would do.

[terycarl]

It’s really sad how they paint themselves into a corner and have no idea they did. I’m still waiting the hear who’s sins Mary died for.

who said that she died????

[Mark17]

I wish everyone would make it, but I believe it will be on an individual basis. Remember Jesus said there is rejoicing in Heaven over one sinner who repents. May we both experience His mercy. Have a nice day, it is now 12 noon where I am, and it's hot, like near 90. 🆒

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you again for sharing your insights, dear brother in Christ, and especially thank you for your blessing! May God ever bless you in this world and the one to come.

I took your advice and extended the context backwards and forwards to pick up the full paragraphs, both dealing with the subject matter of prophesy. In letter format, the two paragraphs look like this:

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. – 2 Peter 1:16 through 2 Peter 2:1-3

I still read it the small way, though - that the first paragraph going into the second is speaking of prophets and prophecies.

Thank you for the conversation! It has been interesting.

[CA Conservative]

The Magisterium of the Catholic church and only they, are authorized to pass to those in the future, the powers granted to them by Christ.

Fortunately, just because you and the Catholic Church say so doesn't make it true.

As far as your reliance on tradition, I think Paul had such an attitude in mind when he warned,"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.