Posted on 01/24/2015 3:23:43 PM PST by NYer
Do you happen to know what the literal translation is?
Even if it said "full of grace" I really don't get how there's a jump from that to Mary being sinless.
Mary was the mother of Christ in His humanity. She was not the "Mother of God". Christ is eternal. Mary is not. Christ existed long before Mary ever came on the scene.
This is elementary logic. Yet it seems to escape some.
Charity is the FORM of God. “God is love.”
Charity is just another name for “sanctifying grace.”
When we have the theological virtue of charity, we participate in the very form of God. I.e., we participate in the divine nature.
Making this possible is the very purpose of the Incarnation.
So, okay. Mary participates in the form of God. She has been “divinized.”
NEWS FLASH: The same is true of EVERY BAPTIZED PERSON.
The Greek word is “kecharitomene,” translated as “full of grace,” (although I admit that I am referencing catholic scholars, and do not know Greek, ancient or otherwise). I am interested to learn that Protestant thought on grace does not include the implication of freedom from original and personal sin.
And yetyou don’t treat every person as you treat the demigod dress... So your post avoided the issue.
The Greek word in NO WAY denotes "full of grace". It means "favored with grace". The Greek word for "full" is pleres and is NOT used for Mary but IS used for Christ and Stephen. If the Holy Spirit meant to refer to Mary as "full of grace" He would have used the same words He used for Stephen and Christ but He DID NOT.
What the article that you posted calls heresy, is what I believe with all my heart as a Catholic. I cherish it and try my best to live my life accordingly. Not every Catholic chooses to follow, but I do. Maybe if they read what the Church teaches in all its fullness, they would follow with joy and love. Maybe those who leave don't understand all the Church has to offer, often those who find it empty, or don't feel they get anything out of it, don't put as much into it as they should. It's a difficult road, but a joyous one if you make it the center of your life. Then God is always with you, and you with Him, and the Fruits of the Holy Spirit begin to fill you.
The article you posted was framed by the author as information for Evangelicals and Fundamentalists to promulgate against Catholicism. Do you promulgate the heresies of the Muslim faith, proselytizing to them? To Wiccans? Atheists? Satanic masses take place in public. Are you there preaching God to them?
I am a Catholic. You will not shake my Faith. I do not choose to impose my Faith on others. I state my truth with, "I believe." And I do, with all my heart.
God bless you!
Actually, you are operating with a false premise: “Christ is eternal.”
Jesus of Nazareth, or Jesus Christ (i.e., Jesus the Anointed), is NOT eternal. Jesus Christ was conceived in the womb of Mary, about 2000 years ago. Jesus of Nazareth, or Jesus Christ, BEGAN TO EXIST at that time.
Jesus of Nazareth is ONE PERSON. That Person is the eternal Word, or Son, of God the Father. He has existed from eternity in his divine nature. He began to exist in a human nature in the womb of Mary.
Is Mary the mother of one person, “the man,” and not the mother of some other person, “God”?
Jesus Christ is ONE PERSON. Thus, Mary cannot be mother of “the man Jesus” without being the mother of God.
Speaking of logic:
Mary is the mother of Jesus.
Jesus is God.
Thus:
Mary is the mother of God.
No one, ever, has propounded the idiotic notion that Mary is or was the mother of the eternal Triune Godhead. The title “Mother of God” has always meant only one thing: Mary is the mother of the Second Person of the Trinity by virtue of conceiving him in her womb so that he could begin to exist in a human nature.
Where did you get that myth from?
You have to be educated in Catholicism to understand. If you choose to interpret the Bible on your own, it won’t make sense.
“her immaculate conception, perpetual virginity, assumption into heaven, her Queenship, and her role in God’s plan of salvation as Co-redemptrix”
I appreciate these posts because I didn’t know Catholics actually believed these extreme things.
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I was raised Roman Catholic (NY) and was taught these very same things. I thought all Catholics believed these things, too, but found out later in life that wasn’t the case. I met Catholics from Northern Illinois who thought those ideas were wacky.
See post #62. Same old “Mary can’t be the mother of God because God is eternal.”
Only God's grace frees us from sin, original and otherwise.
But we all walked under sin and thus needed redemption. Mary being no different. Just because she is spoken of as having experienced favor is no reason to think she never walked in sin. All saints have been favored by God.
So Mary was “favored” with God’s grace, or grace had been “bestowed” on her; however, she was not “full” of grace. How much grace did God grant her, then? One-half of her capacity of grace? Two-thirds? I think you are standing on your head , semantically, to avoid asking yourself how she came by grace at all prior to Redemption without being specially gifted by God. And yes, to the Catholic understanding, being full of grace implies freedom from original and personal sin.
“Angels can’t be multiple places at one time.”
Putting limits on a being which is pure spirit? Of God wills it, it can and will be so.
See post #62. Same old “Mary can’t be the mother of God because God is eternal.”
So Mary was “favored” with God’s grace, or grace had been “bestowed” on her; however, she was not “full” of grace. How much grace did God grant her, then? One-half of her capacity of grace? Two-thirds? I think you are standing on your head , semantically, to avoid asking yourself how she came by grace at all prior to Redemption without being specially gifted by God. And yes, to the Catholic understanding, being full of grace implies freedom from original and personal sin.
So what?
Muslims, Mormons, and many others believe in false religions also. That doesn’t make it correct.
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