Posted on 01/28/2015 1:23:00 PM PST by RnMomof7
But we are all sinners and fall into sin again and again. What do we do then?
Nothing...Jesus did it all...One time...For all time...
Jesus will convict our conscience to confess our sins to him...Jesus has forgiven all our sins...Even those we forget to confess and those we don't think are sins...
well done...thanks...
What a falsehood that is!
Does not your religion teach that a Catholic can be forgiven of these things as long as confession is made and the price of penance is paid???
Thank you, but in this case it needs to be proclaimed loudly and clearly. Jesus in the Eucharist needs to be proclaimed!
That's right...Jesus handed out bread and wine and said, 'This is my body'...'This is my blood'...
Jesus said, 'Hand out and eat and drink this bread and wine in remembrance of me'...
Making up stuff Jesus DIDN'T SAY is an odd form of argument for someone who claims to take Scripture seriously.
Which makes Rome concurring with Reformers:
In his Introduction to Romans, Luther stated that saving faith is,
“..that alone can be called Christian faith, which believes without wavering that Christ is the Saviour not only to Peter and to the saints but also to you....Such a faith will work in you love for Christ and joy in him, and good works will naturally follow. If they do not, faith is surely not present: for where faith is, there the Holy Ghost is and must work love and good works.” [Sermons of Martin Luther 1:21-22]
a living, creative, active and powerful thing, this faith. Faith cannot help doing good works constantly. It doesn’t stop to ask if good works ought to be done, but before anyone asks, it already has done them and continues to do them without ceasing. Anyone who does not do good works in this manner is an unbeliever...Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire! [http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/luther-faith.txt]
“We must therefore most certainly maintain that where there is no faith there also can be no good works; and conversely, that there is no faith where there are no good works. Therefore faith and good works should be so closely joined together that the essence of the entire Christian life consists in both.” [Martin Luther, as cited by Paul Althaus, The Theology of Martin Luther [Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1963], 246, footnote 99]
More .
But Rome teaches that that beginning with baptism, one is "formally justified and made holy by his own personal justice and holiness (causa formalis)." (Catholic Encyclopedia> Sanctifying Grace)
And thus this salvation process usually ends with the RC atoning for sin and once again becoming good enough to enter Heaven through fire and torments or 'purifying' punishments” (INDULGENTIARUM DOCTRINA; cp. 1. 1967) of the purgatory of Rome (EOs reject the purgatory of Rome)
And which is taught as something one deserves:
Regarding those who cooperated with grace, Trent concludes that,
"nothing further is wanting to the justified [baptized and faithful], to prevent their being accounted to have, by those very works which have been done in God, fully satisfied the divine law according to the state of this life, and to have truly merited eternal life." (Trent, Chapter XVI; The Sixth Session Decree on justification, 1547)
Canon 32 similarly states,
"If anyone says that the good works of the one justified are in such manner the gifts of God that they are not also the good merits of him justified; or that the one justified by the good works that he performs by the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ, whose living member he is, does not truly merit an increase of grace, eternal life, and in case he dies in grace, the attainment of eternal life itself and also an increase of glory, let him be anathema." (Trent, Canons Concerning Justification, Canon 32. Also see The Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent, in Philip Schaff, The Creeds of Christendom, Grand Rapids: Baker, 1919 ed., Decree on Justification, Chapters V, VI, VII, X, XIV, XV, XVI) (emphasis mine)
Shortened, this teaches, "If anyone says that the one justified by the good works that he performs by the grace of God does not truly merit eternal life, and in case he dies in grace, the attainment of eternal life itself, let him be anathema."
While it is true that God blesses obedience, and by which a believer grows in grace and virtue and solidifies his election against falling, (2Pt. 1:5-11) and that God rewards faith (Heb. 10:35) in recognition of his works, by which one is judged fit to be rewarded, (Mt. 25:31-40; Rv. 3:4) yet no one can take credit for this, much less his salvation. For it is God who created him, and in grace enables this dead soul to be drawn and convicted by God, opening his heart, and granting repentant faith, (Jn. 6:44; 12:32; 16:9; Actd 11:18; 16:14; Eph. 2:8,9) which is counted for righteousness. (Rm. 4:4-6)
And whatever theological distinctions are made btwn types of merit, what Rome conveys and what RCs typically profess is that they trust they will go to Heaven because they are good enough (God in His mercy grading on a scale), but never can testify to a day of salvation in which they came to God as lost damned + destitute but contrite sinners, and cast all their faith upon the risen Lord Jesus to save them by His sinless shed blood. And which faith they confessed in baptism, and followed Him.
Instead, we hear such professions as this:
I feel when my numbers up I will appoach a large table and St.Peter will be there with an enormous scale of justice by his side. We will see our life in a movie...the things that we did for the benefit of others will be for the plus side of the scale..the other stuff,,not so good will..well, be on the negative side..and so its a very interesting job Pete has. I wonder if he pushes a button for the elevator down for the losers...and what .sideways for those heading for purgatory..the half way house....lets wait and see.... — http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=4098202&postcount=2
And as a result of never having been truly born again and realized the profound basic changes in heart and life, then such RCs know not the essential "fellowship of the Spirit" which born again believers spontaneously realize with each other as they walk in the Spirit. Because they found Christ and who fundamentally changed them.
And i speak from experience as a former RC in a heavily Cath;/ area, who by God's grace became born again while being a weekly mass-going RC, and remained therein for 6 years, during which i served as lector and CCD teacher, (while finding my hunger for Bible teaching met thru evangelical radio), and know the difference btwn institutionalized religion and evangelical faith. Though i yet need to grow more therein, and not take steps backward.
Oh yes I did... exactly... precisely. It is the profane who think that objects can be made to hold magical powers... That food can be fortified with magic and spirits. But of course, my comment was not against the seder, as the Jews do not impart blessing upon the food, and that was my point. The food is just food. The Jews call YHWH blessed, which is right where the holiness belongs.
My comment was more toward those who think some old fart, in a funny hat, muttering arcane sentences, can impart mystical power into such things, and thus make them holy (or unholy) (that'd be all y'all for those of you in Rio Linda). ; )
And by the way, the word magic cannot be misconstrued. It is either the demonstration of profane power or the act of charlatans who mimic them...
You just reiterated my point. :)
Naw...No one ever drank any blood or ate raw meat...No one in Exodus ate raw lambs or drank the blood...
Priests in the Temple did not eat raw meat...It was always cooked...And they certainly didn't drink the blood of the lambs...
So your Eucharist is NOT a real representation of Passover...
If the disciples at the Last Supper would have thought there was actual blood in the cup, they wouldn't have drank it any more than they would have embraced each other in a passionate kiss had Jesus ordered it...They would have immediately lost faith in Jesus as the Lord...
They need Jesus too...
I never said the Eucharist is a representation of the Passover, because the Eucharist is NOT a representation of the Passover. The Jewish Seder is a representation of the Passover.
The Eucharist is related to the Passover, because it was prefigured in the Passover. The Eucharist is a re-presentation of the gift Jesus gave to us by his death. Since the purpose of the death of Jesus is to give us the life of Jesus, we receive the living, risen Christ in the Eucharist.
This requires admitting the act is a sin, admitting that we committed the act, and thus we sinned; in a word, acknowledgement - not an excuse, blameshift, etc. We must confess our sin to God, and to the person we sinned against as well, if we sinned against a specific person. Our confession to God, of course, is a prayer, directly to God, in the name of Jesus Christ. In our prayer, when we repent, we also, having recognized and acknowledged our sin, resolve to not repeat it. This confession and resolution to turn away from that sin is essential part of true repentance. The Bible clearly says we do not have a license to sin, that simply asking forgiveness from God somehow entitles us to repeat the sin over and over again, as long as we confess each time and ask for forgiveness. Such a wicked game is clearly and specifically refuted in the Bible. The regenerate sinner, the true believer, born again, has the help of the Holy Spirit dwelling within them, and when the situation arises again in the future, we should find ourselves being repulsed by the idea of committing a sin again that we have confessed to God and repented of. Otherwise, there has not been true repentence regarding that sin.
Amen!
So you deny that God is omniscient ?
Nice try Arthur..
But that would mean they did not eat the REAL ACTUAL flesh of Jesus..that means it was as many church Fathers said SPIRITUAL..not PHYSICAL
Since this was done at the Passover, where eating the lamb was essential to the ritual under the Old Covenant, and since Jesus was the Lamb about to be sacrificed (He carried his cross at the same hour as the lambs were being slaughtered all over Jerusalem.) it makes perfect sense that eating the Lamb would be an essential part of the ritual in the New Covenant. St. John in particular emphasizes that Jesus is replacing the old Passover with a new Passover, the old lamb with the Lamb of God (himself), the old sacrament with a new sacrament.
Remember Arthur that the Lamb they ate was not THE REAL ACTUAL PASSOVER LAMB.. it was the symbolic lamb.. a remembrance of the actual passover
Something really "special"
But yet those of your religion claim that THEY offer the sacrifice of Jesus to the Father...Which of course is ridiculous...
That Christ gives His blood to those redeemed by Him to drink is the strongest expression of the fact that He sacrifices Himself for men entirely, unreservedly, and completely. (Sasse 1985, 89-90)
Nothing more than the musing of human philosophers...
To refuse to drink the blood of Jesus is to CLING TO THE OLD COVENANT AND THE OLD SACRIFICES, refusing to accept the life Jesus has given to us.
Jesus told Paul to tell us to continue to avoid drinking blood...
I didn't post a word for word quote from scripture but what I posted is what Jesus said...
What Jesus did not say is, 'turn this bread and cup into flesh and blood...
When Jesus said, 'do this', all that Jesus did was break bread and pass the bread and wine out...Jesus then said eat it...And then said, 'do this in remembrance of me'...
LOL Arthur do you make this stuff up as you go along ???..So we can drink his blood now because it looks and tastes like wine?? That is just foolishness.. almost a childish reply to metmom..
Scripture say "the life is in the blood" It also then forbid the jews from consuming it
Do you remember what was done to the blood of the sacrificed lamb on the day of atonement ( the day Jesus was fulfilling)? It was completely poured out on the MERCY SEAT
To me it was not a casual comment when Jesus told told His disciples.. "8And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts?
"See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." 40And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.…(Luke24:39)
No mention of blood here Arthur.. His life was no longer in blood.. He lived before them now a new Christ ..a risen Christ..that" had poured out His blood on the Mercy seat"
Yes it is indeed correct only Rome that makes an idol out of man made bread....
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