Evangelicals & the Eucharist (Part 1)

The Cripplegate, New Generation of Non-Conformists ^ | May 23, 2013 | Nathan Busenitz, professor of theology at Cripplegate's The Master’s Seminary

[Grateful2God]

I'm tired, please find some one else whose posts are not aesthetically pleasing to you.

Jesus is present, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Most Blessed Sacrament of the Altar. I believe it; if you don't, that's your choice. It's as simple as that.

If my formatting is annoying, may that be the worst of the problems you have in your life! Life is too crazy to sweat the small stuff! : )

God bless you!

[CynicalBear]

>>If someone knows to do good, and doesn't do it, it becomes a sin of omission to them. So as long as this false doctrine is proclaimed here, we have no moral alternative but to stand against it.<<

Amen and Amen!

[CynicalBear]

>>Jesus DOES demand that we drink his blood.<<

Just as Jeremiah was told to eat the scroll right?

[RnMomof7]

Considering, however, that the Catholic Church teaches that the Eucharist is to be ADORED, WORSHIPED, in the full sense of the word, with the worship of LATRIA that is to be given to God alone, it is just silly to pick phrases or even ISOLATED WORDS from Catholic writings (ancient writings or posts on FR) and say: “Ah HAH! He used the word “SYMBOL”!”

Yes it is indeed only Rome that makes an idol out of man made bread.. on that you are correct

[Grateful2God]

Your comments crudely reflect the hatred of Catholicism and contempt for its leader. That's your issue. I don't hate anyone, although I sometimes hate what they do. Love God, love your neighbor as yourself, love your enemies. So if you follow Christ, you may hate what we do, but ya gotta love us!

God bless you!

[CynicalBear]

>>In short, the REASON for the ancient prohibition no longer existed after Jesus sacrificed himself<<

Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

That was written "after Jesus sacrificed himself".

>>He tells us to drink his blood<<

His blood was shed on the ground as was commanded for ALL sacrifices.

You can shout and scream about the Old Covenant and Old Sacrifices all you want but it doesn't change the fact that the Holy Spirit through the apostles said NOT to eat the blood. Christ said His words were spirit rather then physical and said the flesh profits nothing. We were told that some would not understand the spiritual aspect.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Christ said "my words are spirit".

[Greetings_Puny_Humans]

Congratulations on your hard work digging up these quotes. The problem is the underlying assumption that there is NOT an authoritative interpreter guided by the Holy Spirit to discern the truth of the matter. Is Cousin Billy Bob and Uncle Fred in 2015 really able to understand the mind of the Church 2000 years ago?

You think these losers are more qualified than Cousin Billy Bob? At least Billy Bob would shoot the terrorist and not fornicate with his koran:

You guys teach in total contradiction of both the holy scripture and the church fathers. Heck, you teach in contradiction to what Papists taught and believed even just a century ago. Your claims of authority are shallow.

[FourtySeven]

But that would mean they did not eat the REAL ACTUAL flesh of Jesus..that means it was as many church Fathers said SPIRITUAL..not PHYSICAL

Here though is where the author of the OP (and apparently you and anyone else who agrees with this line of reason) err.

What the author is saying is, basically, that if the Fathers taught of a "spiritual Eucharist" (which they did) then that means they didn't teach that the Eucharist was really Jesus' Body and Blood.

In other words the error here is to say that something that is "spiritual" isn't really real, or that the only way something can be real is if it's "physically real"

Of course we know as people of faith, that spiritual things can be (and in fact are) just as real as physical things. So once we all stop making the axiomatic error of "the only real thing is a physical thing" the words of the Fathers become clearer, to whit: they believed in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, they simply believed He was/is really present in a spiritual sense.

Now it is true (as I've said on another thread) that indeed no Early Church Father explicitly taught the Dogma of Transubstantiation, however again as I said before this is not concerning as the Dogma wasn't defined until after all of the Fathers here had passed on. So it's not expected that any one (early) Father would have taught the entire dogma explicitly. But it's roots, it's foundation can certainly be found throughout their writjngs as a collective work, and certainly we at least see most taught the Eucharist was more than a mere symbol, rather that it is a "Sacrament", which is both a symbol and that which it symbolizes.

[RnMomof7]

Believe as you choose, hate Catholicism if you wish, but please leave our Eucharistic Jesus in peace!

G2G...I do not "hate" Catholicism ..I pity those caught in her grasp.. I left because the more I read the scriptures the more I knew I could no longer affirm the apostasy of Rome from the scriptures.. I knew what they taught was false.I can not "leave "them alone in deception any more than I could leave a Mormon or a Buddhist .

Did you read the article?

That is my only purpose .. I am hoping that some catholic eyes will be opened and they will go to the scriptures and see for themselves.. what God showed to me

That bread they eat is just bread..it has no special power.. it does not give them greater knowledge of Christ, it does not draw them to Him..it serves just 2 purposes.. it ties people to rome that think it is some magic only held by her.. and it makes lazy people think they can know christ and grow in him by just chewing a piece of bread..

There are not many "paths" to God..there is only one and that one is the cross of Christ..

All others are "sinking sand" ..

No my friend that is not Christ catholics put in their mouth.. it is an idol made with human hands . A saved man does not need a weekly (or daily) "refill" of Christ.. Christ lived in them and they live in Christ 24/7

I hope my friend that you read the entire gospel of John and see the Christ that the elect finds in the scriptures..

[CynicalBear]

>>Making up stuff Jesus DIDN'T SAY<<

Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance (anamnésis) of me.

Greek anamnésis - Definition: a recalling, remembrance, memory.

[RnMomof7]

But be assured, and I believe I speak for all of us who are evangelical, this is not personal. We do not hate people. We hate idolatry. We do not mock sincere religionists who are following false teaching. We only seek to expose the false teaching for what it is. I for my part would rather be writing happy little stories for my granddaughter to read someday when I'm no longer here. I don't enjoy conflict. But here we are. It is what it is. Someday the conflict will be over. We can all look forward to that.

Well said brother..

[CynicalBear]

>>and to have truly merited eternal life.<<

Wait.....What????? The Catholic Church says they can merit eternal life? Say it ain't so Joe!!!! Catholics around here tell us all the time that they don't believe that they can merit eternal life. Now you go a show words of the Catholic Church that says they do? I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you!!

[RnMomof7]

We are His Children, made in His image and likeness. God bless you!

Actually that is a 20th century heresy that became popular

Scripture is very clear that mankind is no longer made in the "image" of God..after the fall in the garden we lost the image of God

Genesis tells us that the children of Adam were made in Adams sinful image
"When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. "(genesis 5:3)
Remember that Jesus told the pharisees that they were like THEIR FATHER....THE DEVIL"??

John 8 43"Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. 44"You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45"But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.

That my dear friend is why we must be born again .. born into the family of God..

I do not tell you this to hurt you, or to condemn you.. but because I really care about your eternity

[RnMomof7]

Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Bingo

[CynicalBear]

>>as the Jews do not impart blessing upon the food<<

But the Catholics do and they even worship that cracker.

[Grateful2God]

Thank you, but I'm steadfast in my Faith. I had my time away and I chose to return. In glad you found what you were searching for, but my Faith has been tried by much more than the forums here. I state what I believe. If a patient on your unit were dying, and asked for a priest to give him Viaticum, would you call the priest, or not? I would like to think you would respect that person's Catholic Faith, even if it is no longer your own, and call the priest for him. All I ask is that my beliefs be treated with respect, along with my free will to believe Ït.

I need to sign off now, I haven't been well and was up all night. I thank you wholeheartedly for your kind post, because I believe you want what's best for me: Moms and nurses are like that- but I was away and found my way home once, and never have I looked back. I have all I need. I wouldn't trade my Faith for anything, and if God chooses to take me, I can face Him knowing I followed the path He gave me with all my heart! I love Him so, and i love Our Lady as well. I commend myself to Him!

May God bless you, and you grow in love of Him always! And may we all meet one day together in Heaven, praising, loving, and rejoicing in Him for all eternity!

[roamer_1]

Your comments crudely reflect the hatred of Catholicism and contempt for its leader.

Crudely? Hardly. Disrespectful and irreverent? Sure. Why should I respect that which is so provably false? Why should I revere that which is so profane? What hath light to do with darkness? But not so crude, unless 'old fart' is what you refer to, in which case I might recommend turning down the 'church lady' setting a notch or two... It is merely a colorful colloquialism (in the dictionary and everything), with a little more emphasis than 'old man' can contain.

As to hating the Roman church and her leader, of course I do. Whore of Babylon, false prophet, the whole 9 yards... She is diametrically opposed to Yeshua the Messiah, a wolf in sheep's clothing. If you are sufficiently robust in your faith, I would highly recommend a deep study in the profane - you will find much there that you will recognize as uncannily familiar. REPENT of it and find the truth.

I don't hate anyone, although I sometimes hate what they do.

Same here. Don't confuse my contempt for the counterfeit church with any such sentiment harbored against you personally...

Love God YHWH, love your neighbor as yourself, love your enemies. So if you follow Christ Yeshua the Messiah, you may hate what we do, but ya gotta love us!

Exactly right.

[lupie]

I see that you are new here (welcome, btw).

Sorry to hear you are tired. If you are tired because of the relatively lame comments I made concerning the fact that many are not going to believe as you believe just because you emphasize your belief rather than give solid scriptural proof, then you are in for lots of weariness here on FR. Lots.

You will grow very weary very quickly here though if your stance is that we should believe as you do just because you say so. And that it is a simple as that. It isn’t. And this isn’t just an annoyance in my life, souls may be in peril.

You have no idea what is going on in my life now. So to accuse me, as you have, that my life is simple and easy so that I am looking to pick on you for a problem I need to fix is so for off base that it can’t be measured! :)

I would lovingly suggest to you that you spend a few months just reading through these threads and learn something - about how to have a decent discussion, how not to, and some of the personalities involved. It will go a long way to your establishing any credibility on this forum. And so will biblical proofs of your position.

[Arthur McGowan]

The post I was responding to contained words that Jesus DIDN’T SAY. You are not making any point by quoting words that Jesus did say.

[PieterCasparzen]

Remember Arthur that the Lamb they ate was not THE REAL ACTUAL PASSOVER LAMB.. it was the symbolic lamb.. a remembrance of the actual passover

1 Corinthians 5:7 "Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:"