Posted on 02/22/2015 12:15:07 PM PST by RnMomof7
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There is no punishment present in that chapter.
Punishment cannot produce righteousness anyway.
Bzzzapt!
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Not in any version of the Bible that I can find!
He said:
Matthew 19:
[24] And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel (rope) to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
[25] When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
[26] But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
You see, a rope can go through the eye of a needle, one strand at a time.
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Which version are you using? In the KJV, the term '(rope)' does not appear in that passage =>
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
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With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
Yes, provided you keep the commandments, sell what you have and give to the poor if you are rich, and follow Jesus. If you are going to read this passage as a possible exemption for rich men, then you have to read it as a possible exemption for those who do not follow the commandments or do not follow Jesus.
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It is a well established fact that the Hebrew word that Yeshua used was keml, which would have been rendered as consonants, kml. It means a rope that is twisted together.
Yeshua did not require that all must be given to be saved.
He did not tell Nicodemus, or Joseph of Arimathea, who were wealthy men, that they must give all to be saved. Your words are your own, not the commandments of Yeshua.
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I quoted directly from the KJV. The text could not be clearer.
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You “quoted” your misunderstanding of the word.
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Jesus was making an analogy. You aren't going to get a rope through the eye of a needle.
The Prison IS the punishment mister wizard.
It is indeed hard, not because riches are evil (Abraham and Job were rich), or poverty merits Heaven, but because they provide a false sense of security and easily become what you live for. For whatever is your ultimate object of affection, or allegiance or source of security is your god, at least at that moment.
He did not say anything like that in Matt 19. Indeed, he generalized the requirement to all rich men without qualification.
But which is just the problem with your isolation hermeneutic, which is manifestly not a sound means of exegesis. Here you have a contradiction, as while you require all to literally forsake all, the Lord proclaims one man who only gave half his goods to the poor, and repaid fraud fourfold, as being a saved true child of Abraham, (Lk,. 19:8,9)
And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham. (Luke 19:9)
The words could not be any plainer.
In addition, what determines what "rich" is? If eternal life depends upon not being so then we should know what it is. Even poor people, as i would be considered being and has lived by faith by God's grace, are rich as compared with 3rd world countries, who would be rich a compared with N. Koreans.
Even the apostles did not leave leave all permanently, as the they had clothes, and most had wives, and Paul earned money, and they all received money. (1Co. 9:5,6) And they did not understand the Lord's words as requiring everyone to literally forsake all, except in heart, as when you offer your body unto the Lord (Rm. 12:1) then the wallet goes with it.
But comparing Scripture with Scripture what do we see? That believers had houses, (Acts 10:6; Rm. 16:5; 1Co. 11:22) and Philemon even had slaves. And believers are told to give out of their surplus.
But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality: (2 Corinthians 8:14)
The words could not be any plainer.
And rich Christians were not required to literally leave all, but consistent with the principle behind the difficultly of the rich being saved, they were to be told,
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life. (1 Timothy 6:17-19)
The words could not be any plainer.
The life of salvific faith in the Lord Jesus is one that lives for Christ, and thus in service to Him and others, laying all on the altar for Him to use as He leads, contrary to living selfish luxurious lives of ease as lost rich men.
Also damnable however, is the victim entitlement mentality, that abhors the system of meriting benefits by work, and which punishes indolence by the lack of such, with voluntary mercy and grace being just that, and which fosters incentive to betterment, and helping the truly victimized. But which instead demands the same standard of living for all, under the liberal elite whose estimation of themselves as mankind's saviors places them there, who alone sit in first class while the rest support them.]
Thus while some Christians can be rich, they are not to live as rich, but all are to live sacrificial lives in service to God, with all we have being a means to that end, to the glory of God whom we live by and for. And in such dependance upon Him that if He does not show Himself alive and faithful then you will be in trouble and in need. For the just shall live by faith, being saved by faith in the Lord Jesus and His sinless shed blood, and thus living by faith in Him who has promised never to leave not forsake those who do believe. Thanks be to God.
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You have not read the scriptures on punishment!
Nor have you read the scriptures on the first resurrection, apparently.
Nor Paul’s simple assertion:
“absent from the body, present with the Lord.”
No one will have any awareness before the resurrection.
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Wrong!
A rope can pass through the eye of the needle, one strand at a time.
Some wealthy men are not controlled by a quest for wealth, while others are.
To say “all” is foolhardy.
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I’ve read all of those references and they don’t support your assertions.
And from where do you get this nonsense:
“No one will have any awareness before the resurrection.”
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That is what Paul said.
The nonsense is the pagan catholic mumbo-jumbo.
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“No one will have any awareness before the resurrection.”
“That is what Paul said.”
Oh, really?
Could you humor us with a chapter and verse reference?
2Corinthians 5:
[1] For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
[2] For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
[3] If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
[4] For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
[5] Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
[6] Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
[7] (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
[8] We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Someday you've got to buy a Bible!
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HAHHAHAHA!
You’re trying to tell us that without the body we have no awareness?!??!
HAHAHAHAHAHAH!
You appear to give crfedence to the Bible by referencing John 3:16.
Have you read the second verse following that one?
If anyone's name was not found written IN THE BOOK OF LIFE, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
Nice editing!
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
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