[iowacornman]

John 3:16. You believe and you are saved. There is no judgment of the saved. If you die and you are not saved, you go to the grave and oblivion. There is no eternal existence in Hates. Just the grave.

[CynicalBear]

Still pushing that falsehood ey?

[GeronL]

bump

[daniel1212]

John 3:16. You believe and you are saved. There is no judgment of the saved. If you die and you are not saved, you go to the grave and oblivion. There is no eternal existence in Hates. Just the grave.

You are wrong on both counts. The saved are judged at tyhe judgment seat of Christ (1Cor. 3:8ff ) as to the manner of their workmanship in building the church, so as to determine the rewards they will receive or lose, but which is only for the saved and is not to determine that status.

The lost go to Hell at death and then face the great white throne judgment to determine their degree of punishment in the Lake of Fire.

Luke 16:19-31 is not a parable as it not only contains real names but the Lord never used science fiction, which a soul being conscious after death and suffering would be if annihilationism is true.

In addition, to relegate the dire warnings of the Lord - that it would be better to pluck out your eye, or cuts your arm or leg off if it causes you to sin rather than end up where the fire is not quenched (Mt. 18:8,9) - to merely being burnt up at the end is absurd, as then it hardly has much deterrent. Many would consider 70 years fulfilling lusts in exchange to final annihilation to be a fair trade.

But what the Lord taught was that the lost will be sent to the same place as the devil, and both shall realize everlasting punishment of varying degrees.

And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 8:11-12)

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. (Matthew 13:40-43)

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: (Matthew 25:41)

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Matthew 25:46)

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. (Revelation 14:11)

And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9)

[Elsie]

John 3:16. You believe and you are saved. There is no judgment of the saved. If you die and you are not saved, you go to the grave and oblivion. There is no eternal existence in Hates. Just the grave.

You appear to give crfedence to the Bible by referencing John 3:16.

Have you read the second verse following that one?

John 3:18

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

[Elsie]

If you die and you are not saved, you go to the grave and oblivion. There is no eternal existence in Hates. Just the grave.

Exodus 32:32-33
 But now, if you will forgive their sin—but if not, please blot me out of your book that you have written.”  But the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book.

 

Daniel 12:1
 “At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.

 

 

 

Philippians 4:3
 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

 

Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

 

Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

 

 

Revelation 17:8
 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

 

 

 

Revelation 20:11-15
"Then I saw a great White Throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and THE BOOKS WERE OPENED. Another book was opened WHICH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE. The dead were judged according to their works as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to their works.  Then death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written IN THE BOOK OF LIFE, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

 

Revelation 21:27

Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

[Elsie]

If you die and you are not saved, you go to the grave and oblivion. There is no eternal existence in Hates. Just the grave.

If anyone's name was not found written IN THE BOOK OF LIFE, he was thrown into the lake of fire."