Posted on 02/28/2015 3:41:21 PM PST by NYer
Sorry, but the idea that Jewish burials mirrored Egyptian burials is completely false. Jews had no interest in preserving their bodies for posterity. Everything was targeted toward gathering deceased's bones unto the bones of his ancestors. Not ONE Jewish burial has ever been found in which the body was swaddled in strips of cloth ala a mummy. None. Zip, Zero. In fact, only one body has been found covered with a surviving shroud. . . and it was the remnants of a large sindon like the Shroud of Turin, in a grave from the 1st Century in Jerusalem and it was only found because the cemetery was hit by an earthquake before the family of the buried man could complete all the proper burial rituals, destroying the tomb. The idea that Jews buried their dead like Egyptians is a conflation of the strips mentioned in the Bible and the popularity of Egyptian Archaeology in the 1750s.
Jewish burial practices do not lend themselves to the winding of long strips of cloth. The 1st Century practices are that a body is bound with strips of cloth at the wrists, ankles, and around (about) the face to keep the body from flopping and the jaws closed. Potsherds or coins are placed on the eyes (the coins possibly were borrowed from Greek tradition) to keep them closed. The face cloth was rolled into a kerchief and used as a binding for the jaw, passed under the chin, behind the ears, and tied over the crown of the head. This is the cloth now referred to the Sudarium of Oviedo and is the cloth that may have been found "rolled up by itself" in the empty tomb when Jesus pulled it off from around His head and dropped it on His way out of the tomb. The shroud is described as a sindon, a large, fine linen cloth, bought by Joseph of Arimethea along with the spices and aromatic oils. The person's phylacteries are usually mounted on the body before completing the preparation. . . and the Shroud seems to show some signs they are present on the image. In general, though, for a normal Jewish burial of the period, the body is washed, anointed with oils, placed on a shelf in a niche in the tomb, along with all things that have the blood from the body on them, packed around with plant materials and herbs, and left to decompose. The body MUST be in the tomb before sundown on the day of death.
After a year, when all that is left is bones, the family returns to the tomb, collects the bones and puts them in a central repository in the tomb called an ossuary with all the bones of the persons ancestors (gathered unto his ancestors), freeing up the niche for another family member. A wrapping of long strips of cloth would entangle the bones and make this ritual very difficult. There is no mention of such a wrapping in any Jewish texts.
Some who hold to the "strip or bandage" canard claim that the sindon that Joseph bought was intended to be torn into those strips. They obviously have never attempted to tear Linen. It is not easy. . . and three-over-one twill is a LOT stronger than a simple one-over-one weave. There would have been no time at all for such a preparation.
The Sudarium of Oviedo has marks in the blood stains showing just such a rolling into a rope like form for tying. . . and indicates it was done diagonally. It also appears that it is a cloth that may have covered Jesus' face while He hung dead on the Cross, and then was used while the men who removed Him from the Cross, carried Him to the tomb, as their is a bloody hand print showing someone may have held His head by the face, supporting it while carrying His body. What more convenient cloth could they have used to press into service to bind the jaw closed in death?
On the contrary, it has been examined by experts in human anatomy. . . as well as experts in art. It is not a work of art. It is quite realistic and in fact is a 3D terrain map of a human being. It is perfect in every detail. There is nothing artistic about it. It is not even a photograph as some have called it. It shows no light artifacting at all. This is only the most researched object in science and artistic scholarship in the last 117 years.
between You and swordmaker,I have taken away all And more information on the Shroud, than could be seen on TV.
Thanks
Thanks for the ping and the link. I believe it is real.
Exactly....this is just one more idol...
Why look down on fellow Christians?
Romans 14:4
Except that it makes Jesus look “totally tubular.” The scriptures say he was no looker, but an exact look like this would have gotten him a distinct reputation as an odd ball, and middling on the “stature” scale to boot.
God wanted no idolaters and therefore didn’t give us any exact picture of Jesus. An anatomically exact portrayal of something that is stylized in the beginning doesn’t say anything.
I have no faith in faith. I want all the apparations and shrouds I can get my hands on. We won’t send a person to jail without sufficient evidence, yet we’ll give our lives to God with a fraction of sufficient evidence. Amen.
God wins His case by His character. Not by externals. “Blessed are those who have not seen, and have yet believed.” A reliance on externals makes you vulnerable to tricks.
You have to remember that the Shroud as we see it today is a positive of the Shroud's negative image. What you actually see on the Shroud is not what we see in the photographs. What we see could only be seen in the past 117 years after Secondo Pia took the first photograph of the Shroud. Even photographs that show the Shroud as it really appears are enhanced to darken the image. . . which is very evanescent.
One would think that questions of appearance could be cleared up quite neatly by transforming this into a positive. If it is supposed to be an “exact picture of Jesus.” Come on 117 years of research, where is the solid sculpture which would result? Then it can be judged on whether it plausibly meets the scriptural criteria.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNJPJ4JwHeE
Here is that video about the “Face of Jesus”.
As the researcher says near the end, the Turin thing isn’t an image - it is a database. From that data they created an image that is of a typical, normal human.
Of course, after being whipped and bloody, the image is not of a person to be looked upon and admired, or however that Bible verse goes.
As a scientist I think the shroud investigation stuff is interesting, and perhaps shows the miraculous nature of the resurrection. I think it is in the link where one of the investigators is a hot-shot physicist, and likens to the image occuring during a “singularity” - or a mini - Big Bang. (The shroud’s image of the back is not deformed due to the weight of a body on it - so the body is in mid-air).
Interesting thing to me, the Jesus that spoke everything into creation, also promised to make all things new. And His Resurrection is the means that He made all things new (a new creation).
As a Christian, does the shroud add anything, or take away anything from my faith? Naw.
The man on the Shroud is within the normal height ranges for Jewish men of 1st Century Jerusalem according to a census of male skeletons found in ossuaries in the area. In fact, Jewish men of the era at 5' 8 5 1/4" averaged only 1/8" shorter than the average American male of the 20th Century's 5' 8 3/8" height. Strangely, their 1st Century Roman conquerors averaged only 5' 5" in height. The genotype has been identified by anthropologists as what today is the Semitic type called "High Noble Arab" and about 40% of the native Jewish population of Israel is of that body and facial type.
This is so awesome .. Thank you so much. I had no idea YouTube would have this video.
I just checked with the History Channel tonight to see if they were planning on airing it just prior to Easter. I was hoping they would so I could record it and play it when my sister visits the week after Easter. She and I are both Christians, but she told me she has never seen the video.
So again, thank you so much for the link.
Here is a better photograph of the Shroud as it is. . . but still with image enhanced.
The closer you get to it, the harder the image is to see. . . from 15 feet or so or closer, it cannot be seen at all.
The fire was in 1532, so it was after that date that the damaged cloth was cut away and the new cloth was added to the shroud.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNJPJ4JwHeE
The link is to a video of “The Face of Jesus”. I hope you like it .. it’s amazing.
I can’t recall if they made a solid sculpture - but my previous link (Face of Jesus) they came up with a full body 3-D image based on the shroud.
I think they DID use a solid model of a generic head to scan to try to recreate how the image was put on the shroud. Turns out a flatbed scanner did the trick. (So not a radial burst of light/energy as I might have suspected if the image was placed during an instant such as the Resurection.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNJPJ4JwHeE
Here is a link to “The Face of Jesus”
I left a note with the History Channel to see if they are planning on airing it before Easter. I want to record it and play it while my sister here. She’s a Christian too, but she’s never seen this video.
McDowell never made any statements about Jewish burial rituals involving organ removal or embalming to preserve the corpse a la the Egyptian ritual.
Everything was targeted toward gathering deceased's bones unto the bones of his ancestors. ...
I was aware of the practice of them using ossuaries to store the bones after decomposition. What did they do with the ossuaries full of bones? Also, was there a socio-economic class distinction with the 1st century A.D. Jews who practiced this?
... The 1st Century practices are that a body is bound with strips of cloth at the wrists, ankles, and around (about) the face to keep the body from flopping and the jaws closed. Potsherds or coins are placed on the eyes (the coins possibly were borrowed from Greek tradition) to keep them closed. The face cloth was rolled into a kerchief and used as a binding for the jaw, passed under the chin, behind the ears, and tied over the crown of the head. ...
I had read of this also.
...The shroud is described as a sindon, a large, fine linen cloth, bought by Joseph of Arimethea ...
How was the shroud intended to be used during burial?
Your previous commentary about the hypothesized effects of bacteria contamination affecting the C14 tests was greatly appreciated.
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