We Cannot Love God if We Do Not Love His Word

ligonier ministries ^ | Mar 27, 2015 | R.C. Sproul

[Steelfish]

Oh yes, so you would like to try your hand at “internet theologian” against a theologian of Benedict’s stature whose books and writings are studied by faculty and students in all the major theological departments of just about every college and university.

The point of absurdity is “Jesus Christ expects us to believe him like a little child. It doesn’t get much simpler than that.”

So why then did Christ command Peter and His successors:

“And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven,” and “Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.”

Just believe like a little child, no need to teach and no need to teach as part of ONE Church, and no need to teach as only ONE truth. In fact no need to teach at all.

This explains why every Foursquare Church pastor and congregants of Osteen, Graham, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Jim Jones, David Koresh, all believe their contradictory and conflicting versions, sometime with lethal consequences, as a little child.

What doesn’t get simpler is that Bible Christianity is so shallow that as it has been said even a paper boat will have trouble keeping afloat.

[delchiante]

Is,
You mentioned the Will of God.

The new testament has at least 12 places where the Will of the Father is noted..

Mathew 18:14- that none of the little ones should perish
Mathew 21:28-31- that All His children will work in His vineyard
John 4:34- that we finish and accomplish the Work He Gives us
John 6:40- everyone that beholds the Son and believes on Him. Shall have eternal life
Romans 12:1-2- make our body a living sacrifice , be not conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of our minds
Ephesians 5:17-18- be filled with The Spirit
Colossians 4:12- stand perfect and mature and fully assured in His will
1 Thesa 4:3- to be holy and keep away from sexual immorality
1 Thesa 5:18- in everything, Give Thanks
1 Peter 2:15- by doing well (well doing) we would silence the ignorance of foolish men
1 peter 3:17/4:19- that sometimes we should suffer for doing good and not evil.
2 Peter 3:9- that none should perish but that all should come to repentance.

If the supposed Bride would read His Love Letter more, they would know much of what is debated in the world is settled..

And could do what the Bridegroom did when He was confronted by Satan... It is written...

[NorthstarMom]

Well said. Those “Ah ha” moments are exciting when in His word.

[ronnietherocket3]

Our world likes to see itself as sophisticated and technological, but it remains filled with superstition.

I think this is because at its core the technology and scientific knowledge are the tools not the craftsman and too many think that better tools will lead to better results. When they don't get better results, they feel lost and saddened so they turn to witchcraft and superstition to fill the void.

[Iscool]

What is rendered in KJV as “learn of me” is actually “learn from me.” This is no secondhand stuff. On the job training.

Are you saying the word is translated incorrectly or the wrong Greek word was used in the KJV???

[Steelfish]

“Yada Yada Yada...”I don’t need no word of God..the church will tell me what to think and what to believe.. ....””

Of course, there is no need to have the Catholic Church “tell me what to think.”

Christ should NOT have said “Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.”

And again, Christ should NOT have said: “And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. “

“Yada Yada Yada.” Exactly, keep posting stuff that shallow Bible Christians like congregants of Joel Osteen and Rev. Shaprton, will lap up.

Seriously, we don’t need any of this shallow stuff. The Catholic Church that authenticated what is the true written word of God and has within it the sacred oral tradition that existed before the written word was put down has a a vast treasure trove of writings enough to fill a thousand university libraries.

Spare us the forbearance of this nonsense.

[Springfield Reformer]

Turning yourself over to God is great, but there are dangers.  We are all subject to self-deception.  Being an older guy like you (though you have me beat by a bit), I've lived long enough to see people who thought they were in mystical connection with God, but who were living in outright disobedience to His teaching. He has given us His word for our good, because He loves us.

That's why doing one at the expense of the other is a false dichotomy. If you truly place yourself in God's hands, you just want to chow down on everything He has for you.  Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.  I don't see how we can ever isolate ourselves from the word of God without also isolating ourselves from the Word who is God. That's just how this relationship works.

And I, being close to as old as you, have never found my need for reading His love letters to me to grow less, but as time passes, and as the day approaches, I only hunger more for His word.

I have not departed from Your judgments, For You Yourself have taught me. How sweet are Your words to my taste, Sweeter than honey to my mouth!
(Psalms 119:102-103)

Peace,

SR

[ronnietherocket3]

Is there any reason for engaging in the degree of antagonism present? Not every single thread needs to be turned into Catholic/Protestant bashfest. Unity will not be built in Christianity by attacking people at every single opportunity.

The original post presented no direct attack on RC or EO. The groups criticized are:

1. Those that criticize seeking deep knowledge of Scripture
2. Those that seek deep knowledge and use it to puff themselves up
3. Those that practice magic and superstition

None of these groups are exclusively Catholic, though RC does present an danger of 2 a lot more easily than Protestantism. On the whole, I think a lot of serious Catholics would benefit from reading the first paragraph multiple times. If you are going to respond that it was written by a Protestant, it is a good expansion of St. Jerome's statement, "Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ."

[Iscool]

And as if things can’t get more ridiculous, you say: “Some follow it more than others.”

So “you” know exactly what it says as opposed to Joel Osteen, Billy Graham, Rev. Wright? And what about those eminent Protestant theologians who after a lifetime of study and teaching followed this “spiritual instruction book” and converted to Catholicism?

I do know exactly what the bible says...And I believe every word of it...But I never said I understand all of it or even suggested I understand more than anyone else...

There are far, far, far, more men who are equally educated and knowledgeable in the scriptures than your few examples who have NOT joined your religion...

I suspect Rev. Wright and Joel Osteen are far more Catholic than they are Protestant...

This is ridiculous nonsense at its most absurd level. There was NO book given by Christ, at least not until the fourth century when the books were infallibly assembled by the Catholic Church. That infallible teaching did not evaporate eleven centuries later with the Reformation. So for fifteen centuries the followers of the Catholic Church, its theologians, saints, and martyrs all got it wrong on this “spiritual instruction book”?

Really??? Did you learn that from one of your eminent Protestant theologians???

Heb_10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Rev_1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Well shucks, who am I going to believe, you or God???

[ronnietherocket3]

Does the ‘theological Einstein’ teach that the seating of Bathsheba next to her son, Solomon, in her act of intercessing for Adonijah, as symbolic of Mary? If so, does he teach that that solitary case proved that Bathsheba was not supposed to be intercessing in such matters? (Adonijah could have gone direct in his request, if he knew it was legit, with no need of an intercessor. But he knew it wasn’t.)

Solomon prior to hearing the request says that he will not refuse his mother. After hearing the request, he equates giving Abishag to Adonijah to giving the kingdom to Adonijah. Solomon responds to the request by killing Adonijah. This would indicate that Bathsheba could intercede for someone, but there are limits on the intercession. With Mary, Mary can intercede for us with Christ; however, there are limits on the intercession. We cannot be given something through Mary that is sinful, .e.g, winning a free ticket to a strip club. Since Solomon killed Adonijah, it is reasonable to conclude that if we ask for Mary's intercession for something we shouldn't have, it will be worse than otherwise.

[Zuriel]

**The point of absurdity is “Jesus Christ expects us to believe him like a little child. It doesn’t get much simpler than that.”**

I was responding to your implication that the resurrection in NOT simple to believe. Tell that to Jesus.

Jesus Christ, Peter, John, and Paul give ample teaching on the resurrection, the spiritual aspects, the changing of our vile bodies, etc. Benedict puts it in his own words, and that makes him a theological Einstein?

**What doesn’t get simpler is that Bible Christianity is so shallow that as it has been said even a paper boat will have trouble keeping afloat.**

One can’t get much shallower than embracing all the man-made traditions the RC church teaches, some of which were pointed out in my previous post, and ignored.

**This explains why every Foursquare Church pastor and congregants of Osteen, Graham, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Jim Jones, David Koresh, all believe their contradictory and conflicting versions, sometime with lethal consequences, as a little child.**

Like your organization, they also use the unscriptural phrase ‘God the Son’. So why the hate towards them?

[Zuriel]

**Solomon prior to hearing the request says that he will not refuse his mother.**

Well, he shorr enuff did refuse his mother in the end. As I said: Adonijah could have gone direct in his request, if he knew it was legit, with no need of an intercessor.

Likewise, we, and as many other fellow mortal believers, that make a request individually, or in unity of faith, can go direct to the ‘King’.

**With Mary, Mary can intercede for us with Christ;**

Don’t you believe that Christ can ‘hear’ your request before it even leaves your lips?

[Alamo-Girl]

For your discussion:

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. - 2 Cor 11:3

[Steelfish]

Leaving aside your backtracking, Benedict was not referring to believe in the Resurrection. He was explaining the theology OF the Resurrection. This is just as much or more profound of a distinction that escapes Bible Christians who wade in shallow theological discourse.

You cannot swipe away as “man-made traditions” of a Church founded by Christ with the divine authority extended to Peter and his successors, the very Church that assembled the books in the Bible in the early fourth century checking and crosschecking the writings it chose for inclusion in the Bible with what you call “man-made traditions.”

Of course Bible Christians are welcome to put together their own written word of God, but it would be quite a leap to untether the written word of God from the unwritten Word.

For four centuries before the written word of God was assembled, the early Church relied on the sacred oral traditions.

You don’t have to take the word of Augustine, Aquinas, Newman and Benedict. In fact their works are so profound in thought that its the stuff for discussion in theological departments of colleges and universities.

Instead, you may go ask your eminent Lutheran and Episcopalian theologians why they converted to the Catholic Church after a lifetime of serious study, scholarship, teaching, and preaching?

[Steelfish]

True. But this serpent has a way of spreading falsity and this is why Christ established One Church to each One infallible truth for ALL time.

[boatbums]

It actually showed deeper thought than the broken record of the RCC propaganda machine that imagines it can come on any thread and spout the same drivel time after time. Why not discuss the topic of the thread and stop being nasty towards someone for a change?

Do you or don't you agree that loving God also means loving His word? Can you answer that or not?

[jacknhoo]

Right over their heads.

[trebb]

His Word convicts us all - it’s natural to be conflicted and He designed us that way. Way too much guilt for those who (as was called out in Romans) have fallen from Grace.

[CynicalBear]

>>It seems so much more exciting to live with a freewheeling openness to the leading of the Holy Spirit rather than practicing the laborious discipline of mastering His Word.<<

Wow! Where does on start with that statement?

"Freewheeling openness to the leading of the Holy Spirit? Without an earnest desire to search the scriptures that is simply not possible. Without scripture that's an invitation to deceptive spirits. There can be no "freewheeling openness to the leading of the Holy Spirit" without an equal and ardent desire to know the word of God.

The statement "practicing the laborious discipline of mastering His Word" says to me that there is no "leading of the Holy Spirit". How could someone say that it's "laborious discipline" when led by the Holy Spirit? It's not "laborious discipline" but an eager and overwhelming desire when led by the Holy Spirit.

Being led by the Holy Spirit is inseparable from a desire to search the scriptures daily.

[metmom]

Relationships are not laborious and disciplined.

Perhaps this guy should read Song of Solomon sometime.

And you know what? He is right in a way. It IS way more exciting living with a freewheeling openness to the Holy Spirit. And I’d take that any day over the cold, formalism of laborious study and discipline.