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Catholic Apologetics: Non-Catholics in the Communion Line
Catholic Answers ^ | April 15, 2015 | Michelle Arnold

Posted on 04/15/2015 1:38:52 PM PDT by NYer

There are usually a few Masses per year at which there can be expected to be a large number of non-Catholics present. Christmas and Easter Masses are popular with non-Catholics, mainly because they are visiting Catholic family and friends. Nuptial Masses, especially when one of the parties to be married is a non-Catholic Christian, will have large turnouts of non-Catholics (sometimes up to half the congregation). Non-Catholics can also be expected at Masses offered for other sacramental firsts and life-cycle events, such as confirmations and funerals.

This reality raises a common question for the apologists here at Catholic Answers: What should happen at Communion time? Here's a recent question I received on the issue.

At my granddaughter's First Communion, the priest announced that if there were any Episcopalians present they could receive Communion because they believe in the Real Presence. Other Protestants could come forward for a blessing. When did the teaching change on receiving Communion? I thought you had to be in full union with Rome. My son-in-law is Protestant and this caused real confusion for us.

In this case, both the priest and the inquirer were mistaken, to some extent, in their respective understandings of the Church's sacramental discipline.

The priest was incorrect that Episcopalians ordinarily may receive Communion at a Catholic Mass. Since Episcopalians do not have valid holy orders, they do not have a valid Communion. The fact that they believe that Jesus is in some way present in the Eucharist does not mean that they fully share Catholic faith in the nature of the Real Presence.

The inquirer also was not entirely correct that those who receive Communion must be "in full union with Rome." Orthodox Christians, and members of a few other Christian churches with valid holy orders and a valid Eucharist, are allowed to receive Communion when attending Catholic Masses. The Guidelines for the Reception of Communion state:

Members of the Orthodox churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Polish National Catholic Church are urged to respect the discipline of their own churches. According to Roman Catholic discipline, the Code of Canon Law does not object to the reception of Communion by Christians of these churches (canon 844 §3).

Occasionally, under special circumstances, a baptized non-Catholic Christian may receive the Eucharist if there is grave need, the Christian "spontaneously asks" for the sacraments, and if he cannot approach his own minister:

Because Catholics believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches with whom we are not yet fully united are ordinarily not admitted to holy Communion. Eucharistic sharing in exceptional circumstances by other Christians requires permission according to the directives of the diocesan bishop and the provisions of canon law (canon 844 §4) [Guidelines].

These guidelines, which are based on canon law, are rather complex and shot through with exceptions to the general principles. That can make it difficult for clergy and laity alike to offer blanket guidelines for reception of Communion when non-Catholics are present at a Catholic Mass.

And, all too often, off-the-cuff announcements made by the presider at Mass, usually right before Communion is distributed, do not accurately reflect the Church's discipline on reception of the Eucharist. It may be more common these days to hear a variant of the announcement quoted earlier, inviting "all who believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist" to receive Communion, but the less-common announcement that "Communion is reserved to practicing Catholics in a state of grace" also is problematic.

What can be done? Here are a few suggestions for clergy and laity alike.

Learn the guidelines. I trust that clergy are fully instructed in the guidelines for reception of the sacraments while in seminary. But because the guidelines are not easily boiled down to either "Come one, come all" or "Practicing Catholics only!" then I can only suggest regular reading of the USCCB's Guidelines and the relevant section from canon law (canon 844). We have looked at the USCCB's summary; here is canon 844:

§1 Catholic ministers may lawfully administer the sacraments only to Catholic members of Christ's faithful, who equally may lawfully receive them only from Catholic ministers, except as provided in §2, 3, and 4 of this canon and in canon 861 §2.

§2 Whenever necessity requires or a genuine spiritual advantage commends it, and provided the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, Christ's faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister, may lawfully receive the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose churches these sacraments are valid [emphasis added].

§3 Catholic ministers may lawfully administer the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist, and anointing of the sick to members of the Eastern churches not in full communion with the Catholic Church, if they spontaneously ask for them and are properly disposed. The same applies to members of other churches which the Apostolic See judges to be in the same position as the aforesaid Eastern churches so far as the sacraments are concerned.

§4 If there is a danger of death or if, in the judgement of the diocesan bishop or of the episcopal conference, there is some other grave and pressing need, Catholic ministers may lawfully administer these same sacraments to other Christians not in full communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who spontaneously ask for them, provided that they demonstrate the Catholic faith in respect of these sacraments and are properly disposed [emphasis added].

§5 In respect of the cases dealt with in §2, 3, and 4, the diocesan bishop or the episcopal conference is not to issue general norms except after consultation with the competent authority, at least at the local level, of the non-Catholic church or community concerned.

Given the importance of access to the sacraments by all those duly permitted and properly disposed to receive them, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, I do not think it is unreasonable to recommend that priests and deacons memorize this canon and the USCCB's Guidelines. Or, if memorization is impossible, clergy can print out both the canon and the Guidelines on the front and back of a laminated card and keep it on their person at all times, as police officers do with The Miranda Warning.

Publish the guidelines. The missalettes used in many American Catholic parishes often print the USCCB's Guidelines, usually on the inside front cover. If a parish uses a missalette that has the USCCB's Guidelines available, great. If not, then contact the USCCB and request permission to reprint the Guidelines onto card stock to create a sturdy insert that can be placed inside all of the parish's missalettes. Extras can be placed in the parish's literature racks.

Promote the guidelines. Once a parish has determined where its copies of the Guidelines are—whether they are already printed in the parish missalettes or are printed by the parish on card stock and placed in the missalettes—the parish can create a plan of action for promoting the Guidelines at liturgies where non-Catholics are expected to be present. For example, a regular announcement before Masses offered at Christmas, Easter, and for weddings and funerals can be to direct the congregation's attention to the Guidelines and ask the congregation to read the Guidelines before the liturgy begins. For example:

Before we begin, we would like to direct your attention to the Guidelines for Reception of Communion, which can be found on the inside front-cover of the missalettes placed in the pew pockets in front of you. Please take a moment to read the Guidelines so that you may properly discern whether or not you are able to receive Communion during this liturgy. We welcome all who are unable to receive Communion to offer silent prayer or personal reflection during the Rite of Communion.

Nota bene: The announcement suggested here (my own wording, which may be revised appropriately at the discretion of clergy) is not an open call to receive Communion, nor does it make assumptions about who is properly disposed to receive. It simply directs all present to read the Church's guidelines for receiving Communion and to discern their own preparedness for reception. No assumptions are made about the personal religious convictions of those visiting, some of whom may either not be comfortable praying in common with Christians or may not even be theists (which is why the invitation to "personal reflection" is extended).

When the Church's guidelines are not heeded

Despite all of these precautions, there may be times when someone who in not properly disposed to receive Communion receives Communion anyway. It is more likely that a layperson will notice this than will a member of the clergy.

Clergy have the authority to counsel people not to receive Communion; laypersons have the authority to make the guidelines for receiving Communion known. In a previous blog post, I offered these suggestions to laity concerned about the proper reception of Communion by non-practicing Catholics or non-Catholics:

Bottom line: We must accept that human persons have free will, and may freely choose to use it either positively or negatively. We can offer information. When we have the authority to do so, we can counsel accordingly. In a few individual cases, it may be that ecclesial authorities can take more drastic steps to protect the Blessed Sacrament from unworthy reception.

But there is only so much we can do to inform, counsel, and instruct. In the end, ultimate responsibility for worthy reception of Communion belongs to the individual communicant. We can trust that God knows that communicant's mind and heart, and that he will respond to that person accordingly.

In order that this judgment [by the Lord] be favorable or rather that I be not judged at all, I want to be charitable in my thoughts toward others at all times, for Jesus has said, "Judge not, and you shall not be judged" (St. Therese of Lisieux).



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Religion & Culture; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholicanswers; catholicapologetics; communionline; holycommunion; michellearnold; noncatholics; wannabecatholics
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To: Salvation; ealgeone

yes, we know that the Catholic church teaches a lot of add-ons to Scripture.

But God still doesn’t differentiate between “mortal” sins and “venial” sins.

All sin is violation of God’s command and is worthy of death.

If you break one, you are guilty of all, according to James, the RCC’s favorite author of the NT.


81 posted on 04/16/2015 1:11:27 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: metmom
Must be nice to be part of the protected elite class.

We soon WILL be!!

Psalms 12:8 The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

Doonesbury Cartoon for Feb/08/2013

 

 

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/08/lgbt-protections_n_7027546.html

 

And THEN we'll get rid of these pesky CHRISTIANS!

82 posted on 04/16/2015 3:10:47 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: fwdude; DuncanWaring
However, how about denying communion to baby-killers and sodomites in your ranks...

If the sin is particularly scandalous, this is the time to talk privately with the pastor. Give him the information. Then trust him to handle it in an appropriate manner. It is unlikely that the pastor will be able to tell you anything about how he handles the matter. Give it over to him and then do your best to put the whole thing out of your mind.

..there's a question about whether this canon'' – the relevant church law – "was ever intended to be used'' to bring politicians to heel. He thinks not. "I stand with the great majority of American bishops and bishops around the world in saying this canon was never intended to be used this way.'' -- from the thread [Archbishop]

Albany Bishop Howard Hubbard says it is "unfair and imprudent" to conclude that Gov. Andrew Cuomo and his girlfriend, Sandra Lee, shouldn't receive Communion simply because they're living together. -- from the thread Bishop: None of your business (Hubbard rejects Catholic expert's criticism of Gov. Cuomo)

[Archbishop Timothy Dolan] also does not outright deny the sacrament to dissenting Catholic lawmakers, yet he is seen as an outspoken defender of church orthodoxy in a style favored by many theological conservatives. -- from the thread "US bishops elect NYC archbishop as head in upset (Catholic bloggers blamed)" http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2711746/posts?page=289#289

Another example is Ted Kennedy, who was given Masses in his own house at the same time he impenitently promoted abortion and homosexual rig hts. And then was honored with a glorious funeral, in which Pres, Obama gave a eulogy, contrary to canon law., and even offered a prayer for Teddy’s soul. (http://www.canonlaw.info/blogarch09.htm)

In a recent letter to the Pope which was read at his graveside, he insolently asserts he “never failed to believe and respect the fundamental teachings” of his church, and tried to be a faithful Catholic, etc.. The closest thing we get to any kind of contrition is the ambiguous, “I know that I have been an imperfect human being, but with the help of my faith, I have tried to right my path,” before he goes on to to defend his wonderful works, including universal health care. Not a word of remorse about supporting abortion or promoting homosexual rights, or indolence and a welfare state.

Nor did the pope censure him at all in his response, but “the Holy Father cordially imparts his Apostolic Blessing as a pledge of wisdom, comfort and strength in the Lord.” (http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/08/29/ted-kennedy-to-pope-benedict-i-am-writing-with-deep-humility/)

Which things example the RC pastorate interpreting itself, while SSPX types are accused of being Protestant because they presume to interpret Rome themselves, contrary to how leadership overall does.

For indeed,

"It follows that the Church is essentially an unequal society, that is, a society comprising two categories of per sons, the Pastors and the flock...the one duty of the multitude is to allow themselves to be led, and, like a docile flock, to follow the Pastors." - VEHEMENTER NOS, an Encyclical of Pope Pius X promulgated on February 11, 1906.

83 posted on 04/16/2015 4:57:33 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: metmom; NKP_Vet; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; CynicalBear; daniel1212; ...
A “baby-killer” or sodomite, if they claim to be Catholic, could have went to confession and confessed this sin and told God they would never again partake in this sin, they are absolved of this sin. That is the reason they would receive communion. Now if this baby-killer or sodomite is practicing this sin, or if these same persons are politicians that believe in these sins and promote these sins, THEY HAVE EXCOMMUNICATED THEMSELVES and if they present themselves for communion GOD KNOWS they are committing a mortal sin by partaking in Holy Communion.

What about those catholics who vote for politicians who support the above??

84 posted on 04/16/2015 5:16:23 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Alex Murphy
Is the schismatic portion still considered "of the Church"?

I don't even know anymore. Ott's Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma would say "no" but it's not infallible, even though he takes its information from authoritative sources.

"Hunker down and pray" is the best advice I've ever received. That's why I don't fault sedevacantists or SSPX adherents for their positions, nothing makes sense right now.

85 posted on 04/16/2015 5:23:30 AM PDT by Legatus (I think, therefore you're out of your mind)
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To: ealgeone
What about those catholics who vote for politicians who support the above??

THIS is why we need a new Inquisition... I realize this freaks everyone out, but everyone who claims to be Catholic needs to put up or shut up. No need for racks and other devices, just simple yes or no questions and opportunities to accept what the Church teaches or stop calling themselves Catholic. SOMETHING needs to be done because this is getting ridiculous.

86 posted on 04/16/2015 5:28:42 AM PDT by Legatus (I think, therefore you're out of your mind)
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To: fwdude
However, how about denying communion to baby-killers and sodomites in your ranks, even though “Catholic?”

Something we are in 100% agreement on.

87 posted on 04/16/2015 6:16:38 AM PDT by verga (I might as well be playing chess with pigeons,.)
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To: Legatus
...nothing makes sense right now.

Nothing?
88 posted on 04/16/2015 6:43:17 AM PDT by Resettozero
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To: kearnyirish2
The Orthodox Churches are not Catholic,

Which is more Roman elitism, which exclusive claim to be the "Catholic" church is contradicted by EOs, while both contradict Scripture, more so Rome .

In the Nicene Creed of faith our Church is described as the "One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church": "One" because there can only be one true Church with one head Who is Christ... Each of these titles is limiting in some respects, since they define Christians belonging to particular historical or regional Churches of the Orthodox communion.. “because it has all the proper attributes, the Orthodox Church is the living realization of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.” — http://www.antiochian.org/node/17076

. It may also be called the Orthodox Catholic Church, the Orthodox Christian Church, the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church, the Body of Christ, the Bride of Christ, or simply the Church.

those united with the Pope of Rome are properly called “Roman Catholics,” not “Catholics,” just as we are properly called “Orthodox Christians...” - http://oca.org/questions/romancatholicism/catholic-and-orthodox

Then there are those who attempt to join together all Christian religions into one faith. They would be horrified at the idea of a service with Hindus and Christians celebrating together, yet they do not bat an eyelash at the idea of Orthodox celebrating with Roman Catholics, who with no authority broke off from the Church close to a thousand years ago. — http://www.orthodox.net/articles/against-ecumenism.html

Roman Catholicism, unable to show a continuity of faith and in order to justify new doctrine, erected in the last century, a theory of "doctrinal development." Following the philosophical spirit of the time (and the lead of Cardinal Henry Newman), Roman Catholic theologians began to define and teach the idea that Christ only gave us an "original deposit" of faith, a "seed," which grew and matured through the centuries. The Holy Spirit, they said, amplified the Christian Faith as the Church moved into new circumstances and acquired other needs.

Consequently, Roman Catholicism, pictures its theology as growing in stages, to higher and more clearly defined levels of knowledge. The teachings of the Fathers, as important as they are, belong to a stage or level below the theology of the Latin Middle Ages (Scholasticism), and that theology lower than the new ideas which have come after it, such as Vatican II.

All the stages are useful, all are resources; and the theologian may appeal to the Fathers, for example, but they may also be contradicted by something else, something higher or newer. On this basis, theories such as the dogmas of "papal infallibility" and "the immaculate conception" of the Virgin Mary (about which we will say more) are justifiably presented to the Faithful as necessary to their salvation. - http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/reading/ortho_cath.html

Orthodoxy is not simply an alternative ecclesiastical structure to the Roman Catholic Church. The Orthodox Church presents a fundamentally different approach to theology, because She possesses a fundamentally different experience of Christ and life in Him. To put it bluntly, she knows a different Christ from that of the Roman Catholic Church.” — Clark Carlton, THE WAY: What Every Protestant Should Know About the Orthodox Church, 1997; http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=13-07-033-b.

89 posted on 04/16/2015 6:50:57 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer
>>Actually, i think there is a good case for closed communion<<

I believe one would be hard pressed to show evidence from scripture of the apostles teaching that it is the ekklesia who restricts someone from taking communion. It's always the personal responsibility of the individual as far as I can tell. It's the individual assemblies who allow or disallow fellowship so that would be the only example of "closed communion".

90 posted on 04/16/2015 6:55:23 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: metmom

Hypocrisy indeed. It’s not like they didn’t know those priests were sodomites. They moved them from place to place knowing they were.


91 posted on 04/16/2015 6:59:52 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: xone
But left before the institution of the Lord's Supper. Matt 26:24-26

Not according to Luke 22:20-21

20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. 21 But behold, the hand of him who betrays me is with me on the table.

Note verse 21.

92 posted on 04/16/2015 7:56:53 AM PDT by CommerceComet (Ignore the GOP-e. Cruz to victory in 2016.)
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To: daniel1212; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer
And ironically it is Caths who claim to believe in the Real Presence that should be excluded from the Lord's Supper, as they usually have never actually been converted, and i speak from experience, praise God now, and contort the Lord's Supper into a form of endocannibalism, supposing to receive spiritual life via physically eating human flesh, though Platonically explained.

When I was PCA we had a closed communion ... The Pastor would announce that as the elements were being passed

93 posted on 04/16/2015 8:19:43 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Salvation

I don’t plan on it. I guess what I’m getting at is we can’t determine what is in a person’s heart when they take communion. Judas was an Apostle who witnessed miracles yet his heart wasn’t”right” with Jesus. I’m sure there are many Judas’ in the communion line at the holidays.


94 posted on 04/16/2015 8:21:52 AM PDT by PJammers (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: daniel1212
Actually, i think there is a good case for closed communion, to ensure it is only those who are of the Body of Christ are partaking, as the Lord's supper is to show His death by that shared communal meal, as per 1Cor. 11.

Having had lots of discussion on this issue with conservative Presbyterians, I never found their arguments for closed communion very compelling. Bottom line, it is the Lord's Table and not the Table of Our Regulatory Principle is Stricter than Yours Church.

I found it odd that 1 Corinthians 11 is cited for support of the elders fencing the table by those who hold to closed communion. Paul chastises the Corinthian Church for creating divisions with the meal that is supposed to build unity. Yet when elders temporarily determine the sheep and the goats, aren't they doing the same thing? It might be for good motives but it accomplishes the same thing. Further, when the passage talks of a self-examination (verse 28) and not examination by ecclesiastical authorities.

If I visit a church which practices closed communion, I'll respect their rules and not partake if disallowed and won't create a scene or enter into a great debate but I won't go back.

95 posted on 04/16/2015 8:24:10 AM PDT by CommerceComet (Ignore the GOP-e. Cruz to victory in 2016.)
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To: CynicalBear; daniel1212; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; redleghunter
>>Actually, i think there is a good case for closed communion<<
I believe one would be hard pressed to show evidence from scripture of the apostles teaching that it is the ekklesia who restricts someone from taking communion. It's always the personal responsibility of the individual as far as I can tell. It's the individual assemblies who allow or disallow fellowship so that would be the only example of "closed communion".

This would make a good discussion for a Protestant/Evangelical caucus thread.  I've been on both sides of the issue.  In the early days, when I was attending a Dutch Reformed fellowship (no I am not Dutch), they were insistent on tight control over participation in the Lord's Supper.  The argument was that God would hold the leadership responsible for permitting unworthy participation, and given that Paul says illness and death can result, it only follows that strong oversight is necessary to the well-being of any who might participate.

But as you say, CB, when the time came to defend the practice using Scripture, there were only general principles and inferences.  No explicit prohibition.  And no accounting for the situation where you might have a visitor from an out-of-denomination fellowship who is no doubt worthy spiritually but not on paper.  In my later years I concluded, and still hold, that while leadership does have a responsibility to protect the flock from itself to some degree, that does not extend into areas where they do not have Scripturally designated jurisdiction.  1 Corinthians 11:28 defines the jurisdiction for this explicitly, "let a man examine himself." This is between the individual and God. No prohibition on bringing leaders in for advice, as in "Pastor X, I need to reconcile with someone before I do this, can you help me do that?"  But come the moment of decision, it is up to the individual.  The leadership cannot be judged for honoring proper jurisdiction.  Likewise, I believe parents of younger children have jurisdiction to help them decide when they are ready.  

But I respect the concern that drives the other position.  Honoring the Lord above all is paramount among His children, even when we have slight differences of opinion on how best to do that.

Peace,

SR

96 posted on 04/16/2015 8:27:05 AM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: CommerceComet
Looks like a contradiction. The timeline:

1. Judas went to the Chief priests to betray Jesus for money (Matt. 26:14; Mark 14:10; Luke 23:2-6).

2. The disciples all ate at least the initial part of the Passover Supper (Mark 14:17; Luke 22:14).

3. After the intial part of the Passover Supper was ended, the devil puts it in Judas' heart to betray Jesus; Jesus washes all their feet (John 13:2-11).

4. They were told that they were not all clean, a clear reference to Judas. (John 13:11). 5. All, or a few of them, sat back down at the table to dip sops. (John 13:12, 28).

6. The disciples are then told that one of them would betray Jesus. (John 13:21).

7. They ask, including Judas, "Is it I?" and who it was. (Matt. 26:25; John 13:22-25).

8. They are told that the one that dips his 'sop' with Jesus would be His betrayer. (John 13:26; Mark 14:18-20).

9. Judas is told that he is the one and given the 'sop.' (John 13:27, 30).

10. After being given the sop, Judas IMMEDIATELY goes out from them and goes to the chief priests. (John 13:30).

11. Jesus institutes the Lord's Supper/Christian Communion with the eleven. (Matt. 26:26; Mark 14:22-25; Luke 22:19-20). Judas is no longer present.

12. Jesus Expounds upon the meaning of His life and the Gospel (John 13:31 to John 18:1).

13. The eleven sing a Hymn (Mark 14:46).

14. The eleven go out to the Mount of Olives and the Garden of Gethsemane (John 18:1; Luke 22:39).

15. Judas takes Jesus' enemies to Him, betraying him with a kiss (Matt. 26:47; Mark 14:43; Luke 22:47, 48; Acts 1:16; John 18:2-5).

16. Judas repents and hangs himself (Matt. 27:3; Acts 1:25).

Looks like a contradiction. Only if Scripture isn't looked at in its totality. Luke typically didn't record events chronologically.

Last Supper Timeline

97 posted on 04/16/2015 8:33:48 AM PDT by xone
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To: Resettozero
Apparently, only FRoman Catholics can call other FR posters that noun. How did that happen?

We are the only ones that actually study Canon law. J/K

Seriously in any faith group you are going to find 4-5 distinct groups. 1) The lapsed / Socials. They attend on special occasions (Christmas and Easter, weddings and funerals) or when and if they feel like it

2) The nominals. They know most of the rules and follow them because that is the way they were raised. Their kids attend Sunday morning religious ed classes and are schooled in the basics just like them but no more than that. They may or may not attend various functions but are not on committees or groups. They participate but will not lead. This is probably 70-80% of that churches members.

3) The Devout. Not only do they know the rules they can quote them and have copies of the book at their finger tips.They attend every function, are on every committee and are involved at the leadership positions. They make the councils and boards.

4) The Extremists. These are the people that ones that know better than everyone and will go out of their way to TELL you they know better. They don't take it one step too far they take it the entire stair case to far. They are not on the committee or board they start their own committee or board and are the chair. Think Westboro Baptist meets Hale-Bopp.

5) The Called/Ordained Genuinely devout. They have dedicated their lives to service. Regardless of their "denomination" They have a genuine love of the Lord and seek to serve Him through service to Him directly and through others to Him. Think Mother Teresa, Billy and Ruth Graham, etc...

There are a number of subsets and there can be cross overs / transitional members of the various groups, but these make up pretty much any congregation.

98 posted on 04/16/2015 8:55:57 AM PDT by verga (I might as well be playing chess with pigeons,.)
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To: metmom

Why would anyone want to participate in something they consider sacrilege or blasphemous?


99 posted on 04/16/2015 8:57:51 AM PDT by verga (I might as well be playing chess with pigeons,.)
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To: Springfield Reformer; daniel1212; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; redleghunter
I would suggest that in a true New Testament assembly of the ekklesia of Christ this conversation would be unnecessary. Paul taught that if one of the assembly saw someone who was sinning they should bring it up personally with that person. I he didn't listen to that person several should go together. If that person didn't listen even to them it should be brought to the local assembly and then if he didn't listen they would not allow that person to meet with them at all. In that scenario those who vote for abortion for instance would no longer be allowed to participate with that assembly and partake.

The current organization of "churches" allows too many to shirk the personal responsibilities thinking it's the "higher ups" that have that responsibility. The "churches" today are in a sad state of affairs.

100 posted on 04/16/2015 9:01:29 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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