Posted on 06/01/2015 4:08:25 PM PDT by Morgana
Pro-choice Methodist minister John M Swomley who was the subject of a LifeNews article in May, attempts to refute the claim that preborn babies are “innocent.” The argument appeared in a book over a decade old, but it is so strange and disturbing that I’m writing about it now that it has come to my attention.
The gist of Swomley’s argument is that preborn babies are not “innocent” as pro-lifers claim, but are actually guilty – guilty enough, he implies, to justify aborting them.
Swomley first tries to refute the baby’s claim to innocence using theology:
The first claim is that society should protect innocent human life that is unable to protect itself. The term “innocent,” originally used by various popes, refers to fetal life which has committed no sin. Yet the Roman Catholic Church has proclaimed only one person, Mary, the Mother of Jesus, as having an immaculate conception and hence free from original sin. In any event, public policy cannot be founded on theological claims to innocence.
It seems unusual to see a Protestant arguing from a Catholic standpoint. Although I don’t know that many Catholic theologians who would say that because a preborn baby has been conceived with Original Sin, her life should not be protected. Our society does not enforce the death penalty lightly, and condemning a preborn baby to die for having Original Sin goes against both the Christian “Golden Rule” and the physicians’ ethic “Do No Harm.”
Swomley’s argument would also justify infanticide. A baby outside the womb would still be considered to have “Original Sin” until baptism, in many faith traditions. Therefore, prior to the moment when the priest or pastor pours water on the child’s forehead (or baptizes him some other way) it would be permissible to kill the child.
Also, unless we single out Original Sin as the only type of sin that justifies murdering the sinner, no one would have a right to life because by the standards of modern Christianity, all human beings are sinners. Even by the standards of common sense, if the baby cannot be considered innocent, the rest of humanity certainly cannot be considered innocent either.
Finally, Swomley says that “public policy cannot be founded on theological claims to innocence.” Yet he has no problem justifying abortion with his own theological claim to guilt. His argument is self-refuting because he starts out by making a theological argument and then says that theological arguments should not be used in the abortion debate, at least not to condemn abortion. Perhaps he is claiming that theological arguments can only be used by the pro-choice side. This is inconsistent, arbitrary, and unfair.
Swomley has another argument against regarding preborn babies as innocent:
There is another meaning of “innocence” which comes from two Latin words, in (not) and nocere (to harm), and therefore means “not harmful or dangerous.” However, it is precisely the fact that some pregnant women (and their physicians) view the fetus as harmful or threatening to their health or welfare and hence leads them to consider abortion.
Very few pregnancies are a serious risk to a woman’s health, to the extent that her life is in danger. In fact, abortionist Dr. Don Sloan, who has performed for the 20,000 abortions, has said:
If a woman with a serious illness- heart disease, say, or diabetes- gets pregnant, the abortion procedure may be as dangerous for her as going through pregnancy … with diseases like lupus, multiple sclerosis, even breast cancer, the chance that pregnancy will make the disease worse is no greater that the chance that the disease will either stay the same or improve. And medical technology has advanced to a point where even women with diabetes and kidney disease can be seen through a pregnancy safely by a doctor who knows what he’s doing. We’ve come a long way since my mother’s time….The idea of abortion to save the mothers’ life is something that people cling to because it sounds noble and pure- but medically speaking, it probably doesn’t exist. It’s a real stretch of our thinking.
There are specialists who can get a woman through pregnancy even when they have a serious illness. The number of women who need to abort to save their lives is minuscule. Legalizing abortion across the board because of this tiny group of women does a great injustice to the vast majority of babies killed for less serious reasons, including convenience.
In the court case Doe vs.a Bolton, the Supreme Court defined the term “health” in abortion law extremely broadly to include emotional distress. The presence of a preborn baby in her womb may be upsetting to a woman, but that does not mean that the baby, (placed there, in fact, by her own actions) is guilty of a capital crime. Some women may be emotionally upset by their pregnancies, but we do not allow people to execute those who upset them.
Swomley’s arguments are disturbing, perhaps even shocking, considering he is a Christian pastor. But they, like most pro-choice arguments, can be refuted with little effort by any ethical person who has common sense.
But that is not to say Dr. Kennedy is the ONLY one you understand. There are many good men of God.
If it’s the same Swomley I saw on Google, he’s five years dead. But his arguments are still so stupid I’m sorely tempted to track down his grave, dig up his remains, slap his skull, and then reinter them. We’re talking Billy Madison grade stupid.
Insane.
It is too bad this POS Methodist minister’s mother did not abort him! And he will go to hell for holding his abortionist assumptions.
I didn’t know of Swomley, so I looked him up. First of all, he kicked the bucket in 2010 at the age of 95, which shows that only the good die young. He seemed to have spent his long life and career on the wrong side of every issue. He was a major anti-Catholic and critic of Mother Theresa. To the extent that he still has influence today, it could be his stench blowing in from the bowels of hell.
Swomley. Boko Haram could use a spokesperson like him. Might improve their images.
“If it’s the same Swomley I saw on Google, he’s five years dead.”
Yet his statement is still making the rounds.
Also you have to understand the author of this article, Sarah Terzo runs a website that I post a lot of stuff from called “Clinic Quotes” where she posts quotes of pro choice people. Does not matter if they were/are former clinic workers, planned parenthood or just people who support the pro choice cause, Sarah posts their quotes. As Sarah states on her site “they said it”.
see my post #27
Which means this Methodist minister, John M Swomley, is a huckster who doesn't believe in the Ten Commandments. The Bible, God or even Heaven & Hell. Yet he is firmly committed to the concept of Original Sin? How convenient.
It's truly amazing how much religion has allowed itself to be so perverted in one generation. Perhaps I am just seeing it that way. Maybe the truth is, religion has been slowly perverting itself all along.
I think I have always been somewhat suspicious of all religions, and waffled in and out of belief in God (especially in my younger years, and at my convenience of course) until I looked around and decided that this all could not have happened by coincidence. There indeed had to be a creator. The fact that it is still in existence, proves to me that our creator still exists as well.
Reason no. 1,973,888 that I’m so sad that my sister and her family are United(or it untied?) Methodists. :(
>> Perhaps I am just seeing it that way. Maybe the truth is, religion has been slowly perverting itself all along.
The perversion is ongoing, and the extent of it is cyclical. Less than fifty years after Jesus did his redeeming work, St. Paul was correcting the religious perversions of the Christian churches in various places (Galatia, for one). And so on and so forth, ever since. But the word of GOD has endured through all of it — and GOD’s word will endure forever.
>> The fact that it is still in existence, proves to me that our creator still exists as well.
Yes He does. I’m happy that you thought it through and came to that (IMO inescapable) conclusion.
The fallen angel called satan still exists as well, and it’s that liar, destroyer and thief that is responsible for perverting GOD’s creation in so many ways (including the one that is the topic of this post).
FRegards, and GOD’s blessings on you and yours
I once interacted (not here; on a completely different part of the Internet) with a hyper-Calvinist who thought aborting babies was no big deal, since none of them could possibly be among the Elect (or God wouldn’t permit them to be aborted).
Oh, no worries. I’m just in awe that somebody tried to make those arguments in favor of abortion.
I was born a Methodist, but haven’t stepped inside a Methodist Church in 26 years. They stopped being a religion and started being a leftist political group a long time ago.
Yes, he had a role in turning the UMC and plenty of its clergy in the wrong direction, so it is important to acknowledge his legacy, even if he is deceased.
Absolutely he does. At this point I'm sure he even thinks he is winning. But when the Fat Lady sings he will learn the truth.
GOD’s blessings on you and yours
Thank you, and the same to you.
I’m happy that you thought it through and came to that (IMO inescapable) conclusion
It still confuses me why so many people fail to see it, especially as they age. In our youth we can be forgiven to a degree. But at some point & time I would think that people would realize this didn't just happen by chance. Even if you are heavily wedded to science, and actually especially if you are heavily wedded to science, you have to realize that the odds of having that many coincidences occur is not improbable, it is impossible.
Dear God. How far must our culture sink? We are cursed with original sin because of Adam and Eve. But we are not guilty of the inception of that curse. We are only resposible for our own individual acts/sins.
Babies do not have ability to commit a personal sin and are therefore completely innocent.
Swomley had a long record of supporting various communist organizations’ fronts and causes.
He might show up at either www.keywiki.org or www.DiscoverTheNetwork.org.
I’m sure he will show up in old congressional hearings from the House Committee on Un-American Activities, the Dies/Special Com. on Un-American Activities, the House Internal Security Committee and possibly the Sen. Internal Security Subcom/Sen. Judiciary Committee.
This thread contains numerous items crying out for your response. May God continue to bless all of you and yours!
Just evil... one does not have to posit an eternally innocent humanity to respect them the same as God wants them respected.
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