When the Word just isn’t enough

Out of His Mouth ^ | February 11, 2014 | Timothy F. Kauffman

[Elsie]

That’s your strawman.

[Elsie]

if I have to explain it...

[paladinan]

Where do you see my post say, "Catholics are not Christians" - as you declare?

Er... FRiend: with all due respect to your theatrical flair, may I point out something?

[kinsman redeemer]
I think the general rule is that Christians use scripture to defend scripture and Catholics use tradition to defend tradition. Both are acting out of faith.

Please, if you will: explain to me how your statement can distinguish clearly between "Christians" (who allegedly do one thing) and "Catholics" (who allegedly do quite another thing) like that, without categorizing Catholics as "non-Christians"? Had you said "Non-Catholics" and "Catholics", I wouldn't have blinked an eye; but you didn't say that.

Now, if that was simply a slip of the anti-Catholic tongue, fine: I'll happily accept a retraction and amended comment from you, and say no more about it. But otherwise, let's not have a maudlin show of wounded bluster, shall we?

As for your lament that I "do not address the topic"--perhaps you haven't read many of my replies? I've lost count of the thousands of words of text I've typed, in that regard... to you, as well, I think. Let's not let hearts run away with heads, here.

BTW: once upon a time, I went to the trouble to type "anti-Catholic-Church people" instead of "anti-Catholics" (much as I started writing "pro-legal-abortion people" instead of "pro-abortion people", since the same sort of objections came up: "I'm not pro-abortion! I'm pro-choice! Blah, blah, blah..."). But after the last 2 weeks or so, and the spate of anti-Catholic threads and posts, I'm really wondering whether it's worth the bother, and whether it would be a distinction without a difference.

Case in point: RnMomof7 has posted several of these anti-Catholic screeds PER WEEK. For anyone to complain that "we're not addressing the main point of the article/post/etc." is to display rather stunning ignorance and/or obliviousness about the many(!) prior attempts we Catholics have made, in oh-so-similar posts of just a few days prior to this. So please don't play your sad violin to me, re: our alleged unwillingness to engage the issue. If anti-Catholics (yes, I used the term) were willing to stay on one thread, tough it out, and ADDRESS issues (rather than degenerating into a morass of back-slapping of fellow anti-Catholics, verbal flames and sneers, vacuous comments about how "blind/hard-hearted/etc." Catholics are, etc., then you might see some progress. As it is, I hope you'll forgive us some "thread fatigue"; after 50+ anti-Catholic threads, one does get a bit less inclined to repeat absolutely everything one has written to every last Protestant and every last aspect of Church teaching.

[paladinan]

Well... logical people DO tend to explain things, when given the chance. I’m giving you the chance. So...?

[Elsie]

"Catholics are not Christians". Classy.

"Protestants are not Christians". Judgmental.

[kinsman redeemer]

That’s all very dramatic.

Perhaps you’d like to address the question instead of your side-show.

Your are entertaining, though.

[CynicalBear]

1 Corinthians 4:6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.

Please show where what the Catholic Church calls tradition is written.

Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!

And please show where the apostles taught what the Catholic Church calls tradition and that they are the same things the apostles called "tradition".

If you can't answer both of those questions we must consider the Catholic Church accursed by God.

[paladinan]

"Protestants are not Christians". Judgmental.

Are you suggesting that I ever said anything of the sort? Or are you just talking to yourself?

[paladinan]

(??) You’re joking?

No “oops, I guess I *did* categorize Catholics as non-Christians, my bad”? Not even a mention of the question you just asked (in very indignant-sounding tones.. complete with bold-face type)?

It was in comment #60, if that helps you...

Good grief, man.

[metmom]

And none of this is found in the Bible either.....

trinity

catholic

pope

eucharist

sacraments

annulment

assumption

immaculate conception

mass

purgatory

magisterium

infallible

confirmation

crucifix

rosary

mortal sin

venial sin

perpetual virginity

apostolic succession

indulgences

hyperdulia

catechism

real presence

transubstantiation

liturgy

free will

holy water

monstrance

sacred tradition

apostolic succession

Benefactress

Mediatrix

Queen of Heaven

Mother of God

beatific vision

invincible ignorance

Divine Office

guardian angel

Corporal Works of Mercy

Petrine authority

Your point is?

[kinsman redeemer]

You seem angry.

I wonder what you’re like in person.

Maybe we’ll meet one day.

Maybe not.

[paladinan]

In addition to the fact that you’re quite wrong on a few of those items in your list (I note “Eucharist” and “mortal sin”)... have you forgotten that Catholics are not the “sola Scriptura” people, and that you ARE?

Translated: if a “sola Scriptura” person believes in something which isn’t in the Bible, then they’re violating their own “core standard” and “norm of faith”. Catholics aren’t laboring under that disadvantage.

Does that clarify? Perhaps you might address rbmillerjr’s point, now that this misunderstanding has been happily resolved? :)

[paladinan]

(*pfft!*) :) FRiend, you’ve annoyed me a bit, to be sure... but I’m not angry. Honestly. Believe me or not, as you like.

I do have to say: a huffy post is followed up by a “Wow, you’re angry!” post... and a complaint about “not sticking to the main topic instead of side-shows” is followed by a comment about what I’m like in person! Are you bucking for the “King of Irony” title for the week? (You’ll have to wrestle metmom, RnMomof7, and Iscool for it, though.) Are you kidding me?

Short answer: when someone gets all huffy with me, I do tend to get a bit more stern; but when they stop with the histrionics, I’m quite happy to chat amicably. Browse the comments I’ve made in the forum, and I think you’ll see that.

Alternately, take a look at your previous comment at #60; you don’t see anger, there? (Or do you just “bold” things at random, in your posts?) I’d gently suggest that you’re projecting a bit, here... in more ways that one.

[rbmillerjr]

“That’s your strawman.”

Again, proving you don’t understand the logical fallacies you listed.

[rbmillerjr]

“And none of this is found in the Bible either.....
trinity
catholic
pope
eucharist
sacraments”

You do realize the meaning of sola scriptura? The word and meaning of the word itself excludes itself as it is not in the Bible.

So, your exhaustive listing is not valid.

[kinsman redeemer]

"Eucharist" (or a form of it) - I see in my Bible (my Greek Bible, that is) and a hearty "Thanks!" for pointing that out.

Please - tell me where the phrase "mortal sin" is.

Are there others on the list to "note?"

εὐχαριστέω!

[Elsie]

Sure a LOT of guessin’, speculatin’ and imaginin’ going on here!

[Elsie]

Mary’s assumption is man made:

It is not in the Bible.

Didn’t you post the list of logical fallacies. Guess which one this is lol.

Again, proving you don’t understand the logical fallacies you listed.

If I don't understand; maybe it's because my guesser is broken.

Why don't you post the # of the fallacy that I've missed?

I'm sure the lurkers would like to know what is going on in your mind...

[Elsie]

You do realize the meaning of sola scriptura? The word and meaning of the word itself excludes itself as it is not in the Bible.

You do NOT realize the origins of Catholic Tradition? The words and meanings of the concepts expose themselves as being cobbled together from various disparate sources in the Bible as well as by visitations by untestable beings .

[Mark17]

Sure a LOT of guessin’, speculatin’ and imaginin’ going on here!

Isn't that kind of SOP?