Posted on 07/01/2015 7:13:05 AM PDT by RnMomof7
Recently there has been a surge in prominent Evangelicals calling for unity with Roman Catholicism. In one sense there seems to be strong foundational similarities that would justify these calls to unity. Catholics are baptized in the name of the Trinity. God’s revealed word in the Bible -- setting aside their addition of the Apocryphal books, for argument’s sake -- is foundational to their worldview. Catholics love Christ and believe that he died on the cross and rose again to provide grace for sinners.
Obviously there are theological differences associated with the specific teachings of each one of these perceived similarities, and I do not want to minimize the importance of these differences. But for argument‘s sake, at least on the surface, there is some common ground.
There is also a strong agreement in ethical standards. Both Roman Catholics and Evangelicals ground morality on God’s holy nature as revealed in the law of God. This means that on the hot button moral issues of the day; the murder of the unborn, human sexuality, the sanctity of marriage there is solidarity between Roman Catholic and Evangelical ethics because they are coming from the same source. Again, this seems to justify a call to some sense of unity.
Are these good enough reasons to publically stump for visible unity with Roman Catholics? That question is beyond the scope of this post. But there is a more fundamental question that must be answered first. That question serves as the dividing line between followers of Christ and the world, which separates biblical Christianity from every other worldview; does Rome possess and preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
The author of the book of Hebrews in chapter 10 contrasts the gospel with that which is but a shadow of the gospel. He argues:
"And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." -- Heb 10:11–14
The argument being presented here makes it clear that Christ’s singular sacrifice, his death on the cross, perfects those for whom it is made for. This is the gospel. It is contrasted with the shadow of the gospel in which sacrifices were repeatedly made year after year because though they symbolized the atoning and perfecting sacrifice of Christ, they never themselves perfected those for whom they were made. The gospel of Jesus Christ perfects and any other religious strategies cannot.
This principle is directly applicable to the question of Roman Catholicism and the gospel of God. Roman Catholic worship centers on the mass. The mass is a series of liturgical practices that culminates in the Eucharist which according to paragraph 1068 of the Catholic of the Catholic Church (hereafter CCC) is a divine sacrifice. Paragraph 1367 of CCC calls the Eucharist a “truly propitiatory” sacrifice. This sacrifice is performed repeatedly in the life of a Catholic.
The reason the Eucharist is performed repeatedly is because even though it is claimed to be a propitiatory sacrifice that can make reparation for sins (CCC, 1414), it is a sacrifice that never perfects anyone. According to the Catholic message grace is something that you get from God by performing certain acts. First, God gives you the grace for faith in Jesus (CCC, 2000). Second, when you are baptized God graciously erases the sin of Adam from your record (CCC 1257). From that point on you get more grace by doing things like participating in the sacraments, including the Eucharist. The problem is that when you commit sins, you lose some of the grace you have gained and now need more lest your grace be found wanting at final judgment. This forces the Catholic into a position where they need to return day after day, week after week, and year after year to a priest who serves to repeatedly re-present the same sacrifice which never perfects those for whom it is made, since it only offers grace to cover some sin.
This is not the gospel.
Roman Catholics need the gospel for the same reason we all need it. We are all sinners with such a messed up and low view of how holy holiness really is that we think somehow through our own efforts we can attain it. If we just had enough time and willpower we could somehow have our good deeds outweigh our bad, and this will please God just enough for me to be acceptable to him. This is a satanic lie. A satanic lie that to some degree or another we have all bought into at some point in our life.
But the truth is glorious. God is good and God is holy. He is more good and more holy than we can possibly imagine. God is so good and so holy that anything less than absolute perfection is unacceptable in his presence. It is because of God’s awesome goodness and awesome holiness that in his wisdom he has offered us grace, through faith in Christ. A good and holy sacrifice that absolutely without question completely perfects everyone for whom it is made.
False, this is what he wrote, except you reject the Authorized Protestant version of events. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Phillipians, Catholic chapter two, Protestant verses twelve to thirteen,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
That’s working on the presumption that they were saved in the first place.
Lots of people are interested inHim for what He can do for them without being saved. Intellectual assent is not relationship even if they use all the right words.
There is no preserving on the part of the believer. as it is God who keeps us.
That passage where Jesus talks about that is for during the tribulation period, which does not apply to church age saints.
Now we are sealed with the Holy Spirit and HE keeps us.
Have to obey Him why?
Are you serious?
That's exactly what I've been yammering on and on about. And the relationship that saves,is being incorporated into Christ.
I don't, by the way, believe in your doctrine that all of Jesus' precepts and counsels do not apply to church-age saints. That's a way to parenthesize His Words, white-out all His imperative verbs and buffer ourselves from the urgency of His commands.
James warns us to be “doers of the word and not hearers only” because those who hear but do not do are “deceiving themselves.” “But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it [perseveres]…this one will be blessed in what he does” (James 1:22-24). James also exhorts us to persevere “under trials” because those who do will be blessed and will receive the “crown of life” which God has promised (James 1:12).
Some people try to set Paul against James, but that's useless. It's Christ Who eaches throug both of them. And Paul agreed with James (see tagline.)
When He says "persevere" He means "persevere." There's no way around that. The Divine Savior is not going to knock us out cold and drag us by the hair into Heaven to be loved. He made people for love. He did not make us robots, sock-puppets or ventriloquists' dummies. He loves LOVE, not will-less compliance. He's about consent, He's about love, not rape.
False; I know Mary/Miriam is blessed now and forever more, completely trustworthy. As for any one of us plain ol' believers in Christ alone, such are professors and by fruit/works shall be known. The professions and behavior I witness from such run the gamut. Should I ask for provenance, I may receive complaints for asking, a warning from the RM not to ask more than twice on one thread, or silence. I may also encounter the cognitive dissonance that those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, were not really ever saved if they should fall away but that somehow the prophets and prophetesses relentlessly promoting their own versions while attacking the one holy catholic apostolic church have their own personal assurance of salvation.
2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him.
Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
All that "we" and "us" refers to her as well, since she was saved by Him whom she called "savior."
And what He gives to His saints is great beyond all imagining. Which, logically, means beyond anything we have even said so far.
IOW, doing God's will because we do not have a will of our own, is not relationship even if they use the right words.
People who make no decision, who have no choice, who have no will, who have no "say" one way or the other, are by definition incapable of love.
Are Catholics so unaware of the transformation that happens when a believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit that they need to give credit to man rather than the influence of the Holy Spirit?
I think you had better go back and look at what post of yours I was responding to. Mixing different responses doesn't make sense.
I'm sure you have support from scripture for that?
Wow! Paul and Silas must have messed up when the told the jailer what he needed for salvation.
In Acts 156:28, it's that first phrase that affirms the authority question. "It seems good to the Holy Spirit and to us..."
That’s Acts 15:28.
You have to be IN THE RACE to run in it..
Concur;
That line of teaching does not make sense. The Fundamentalist/Evangelical audience, often captive, is so concerned that they must have a guarantee of their personal salvation distinct from their obedience of the Messiah and love of the brethren, that really, do they care a fig for lost rewards, if they had a guarantee to end up in heaven and not in hell ? The focus of that audience is blinded by a disp-sensationalism that casts off many of the teachings of the Messiah as N/A, to their extreme peril, sadly, in order that the. often recent, theologies, survive.
As a Catholic much more is required of you. So, if what you said is true the Catholic Church would consider you not a Catholic. Or, you are not including all that you do and believe.
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